"CUT OUT THEIR TONGUES"
A LECTURE BY TAMALA KRISHNA GOSVAMI
DALLAS, 1996
..."We know Krsna’s purpose, and therefore we are working so hard to establish Hare Krsna dhama, and how dear is any devotee who serves the Lord in this way? Prabhupada said there’s so many difficulties, you tolerate the difficulties. So many difficulties. People used to come to Prabhupada, “I can’t get along with so and so. Can you please change this person. Change the president, change the pujari, change the cook. I don’t like the way he cooks. You can ask (muffled) he’ll tell you, it’s not just me, because I have the microphone, he’ll tell you the same thing. I can show you so many examples of people who went to Prabhupada with very good causes for changing (muffled), and he didn’t change them. I’ll show you many examples I can tell you. And they were people who were doing many discrepancies. And Prabhupada would repeatedly say, “Just learn to get along.” You’ll take one person out, you’ll put another person out, and you’ll find just as many discrepancies. So many examples I have of this.
What is Krsna trying to teach us? He is trying to teach us that each of us should just learn to get along. So many times I saw examples. Prabhupada would have to settle disputes between devotees. Many times. We had one example, I had a treasurer, you know, very difficult person. I said I couldn’t get along. This person would take all the sankirtana money, and immediately after getting the money, close the treasury. We couldn’t get any money to spend for buying the food, for buying the deities things. And whenever the weekend would come he would immediately disappear. So there was no money. We couldn’t use any money. I was, you know, I had practically pulled out my sikha. There’s just so much frustration, cause I was in charge of the temple. Finally I went to Prabhupada and said, “This is impossible. This person is impossible.” Prabhupada said, “What is his crime?” I said, “His crime is that as soon as he gets all the collection, he closes the treasury. And on the weekends he disappears.” Prabhupada said, “Very good treasurer. Very good treasurer.” He said, “the first qualification of a good treasurer, he doesn’t like to spend the money.” And I said, “That’s the end of my complaint.”
Then the Treasurer came and complained to him about me. “He’s too, you know, demanding, he’s always, you know, telling everybody what to do.” Then Prabhupada said, “The best thing is that everyone will get along if you can all figure out common activities to take up. Figure out a common activity.” And then Prabhupada said, “Harinama sankirtana. You all go out and do sankirtana together, and by doing a common activity you will learn to appreciate each other.” Now if I tell you all to go out on harinama sankirtana, we’ll have to wait for the one day each year that you do it. At the Westheimer festival or something, you know. This temple, we don’t do that.
Therefore, I think that the common activity is to build this project. Here’s a project that everybody can do something for. We can all cooperate. Sunday Feast program, we can all cooperate. Somehow we have to cooperate. That’s the key to spiritual life. It’s the most difficult thing to do. In this age, this is called Kali Yuga. What does Kali Yuga mean? Age of quarrel. The nature of this age is that people are always disagreeing. But somehow we have to learn to see the good in each other.
Prabhupada said, “We have to develop the mentality of the bee, the bumblebee. Instead of the other thing the flies, the fly. Flies are moving in the air, bees are moving in the air. But what is the fly looking for? Some salt to land on. The body has salt. And what is the bee looking for? Some fragrant flower, to get some pollen, and make honey. The fly makes disease, the bee makes honey. Both are creatures of the air, flying about. So Prabhupada said develop the mentality of the bee, not the fly.
{Muffled question from the audience}
Are there no good things to find in another devotee. That all we can find is the bad things in such a person? Actually there’s a very good exercise that you sit, you see, here’s a very good exercise. Each day you sit amongst each other, and you select one person, and each person in the assembly has to say a good quality of that person. Then you’re turn will come, and you’ll have to say some good quality of that person. So if your heart is not in the right mood, you’ll be very silent. You’ll want to list 20 bad qualities of that person. But that’s not the mentality to be. That is not going to help us to go back to Godhead. Now you may say, well I don’t care about going back to Godhead. I want justice. Well what is that justice? What is justice? Our goal is to say what is justice. Krsna is the ultimate authority. And Krsna’s representative is the ultimate authority on behalf of Krsna. Well why not you leave it in that person’s hands? Why do you insist that no, I am the authority. I must say. And if you don’t listen to me, then I will either remove you, or go over you, or fight against you.
Why don’t we concentrate on our own shortcomings. And when we are completely free of all shortcomings, then why don’t we, at that point we’ll be qualified to say, this person his this problem, this person has this problem. In every religion, in every scripture, you always see this advice.
Jesus said the same thing, first cast, whoever can, you know, first, what is that, cast out the, huh? Huh? What is it? I can’t. What is the word. Blank in the eye, OK that’s what I heard you say. I couldn’t. Anyway, he said, you know, cast out the mote or something, some, some thing from the eye, cast out from your own eye, that thing.
First purify yourself, physician heal thyself. Before you go around saying this is wrong, this is wrong, this is wrong, this is wrong. You be right all the way through and through. Then you have the right to say this is wrong, this is wrong, this is wrong. Otherwise where will we go? What will we do? If this is our mentality. How will we be able to live peacefully? How will we be able to chant Hare Krsna peacefully? But this, this is the appeal that Prabhupada made in his final days, he made this appeal: please learn to live with each other, empower each other.
But if you don’t chant Hare Krsna regularly, if you don’t perform sadhana bhakti regularly, then it’s very difficult, then it is very difficult. And we see this. The person’s who are not disciplined and practiced in sadhana bhakti become the most critical. Because their heart’s cannot see in the same way. Just like I said, someone who is completely materialistic comes, and they see the deity, and they just can’t understand. They see us chanting, they can’t understand. They see how we’re understand, they can’t understand it. But generally, if a person may be somewhat favorable, may even be worshipping, but if they’re not following strictly the process of sadhana, they will not be soft in their dealings. They will not be able to understand.
You should ask, to your guru, what is it that you want. Please tell me, what is the standard, and I will accept it. Whatever you say, I accept. Blindly. This is what Prabhupada was expecting of us. I saw a case where Prabhupada’s, very senior disciple of Prabhupada, he had become convinced that our movement should have only one incorporation in all of the United States. One registered incorporated society for all the temples. Prabhupada continuously told him no, but he was with some lawyers, and they were advising him this would be the best way to organize, but Prabhupada kept saying, “no, no, no, no”. And this person kept insisting this was a better way. But finally Prabhupada said, “you are simply under the control of lawyers.” And they want to tie you up, and tie all of us up. But I want to see each temple separately incorporated.” And actually, it was so much more intelligent on Prabhupada’s part, as we have seen history prove. Finally this senior person, he went in and he offered his resignation. What was he resigning from? Actually he was offering the statement, “I have no faith”. And Prabhupada had surrounded himself with all of us, just to be there. And another person who was also agreeing with that other devotee, when Prabhupada finally put down, and says, no, finally I say no, that one person offered his resignation, and the other person said, “I don’t understand this, but whatever Prabhupada says I will accept.” And one person left and fell away, and the other one stayed.
So who is your authority? That you insist it must be this way, or I will go and, who is the authority? If you don’t accept guru as authority, then what is the question of bhakti? What is the question of bhakti if there is no guru. And if you say, “Prabhupada is my guru”, I also don’t say that only Prabhupada is my guru, I still have other authorities. And I’m a disciple of Prabhupada’s. I cannot understand how people can go on proposing, and suggesting and advising and even fighting on what they think are things which are wrong and how it should be righted. Why don’t they ask the guru, and just accept? That’s what we were asked to do, in Prabhupada’s time, but why (muffled)? And if you say because you’re not qualified, then find someone who is, and find a society where you can live peacefully.
If I go into your home, and I start telling you, “I don’t think you live properly in your home. You should change the way you live in your home”, you’ll look at me and say, “why are you telling me how I will live in my home? This is my home.” So we have our home. Prabhupada has made this home, he has appointed certain representatives to be in charge of his home. So if you don’t like the way his home is, there are so many homes you can live in. If I come into your home, and I start telling you, “I don’t like the way you live in your home. You should not live like this.” You’ll say, “who gives you the right to come in my home and tell me this?”
So, this home belongs to the deity, and the deity has representatives, clearly stated in scripture, and clearly described by Prabhupada in the articles of incorporation of this society. You don’t have the right to continuously come in, and give so many arguments about how this home should be run. If you don’t like it, then go to another home. But please leave us alone. Stop harassing us. We’re happy the way we are. You want to take a vote, you’ll find that out. We’re not going to leave this home, and we’re not going to change. It’s going to be the way Prabhupada established it. It’s not going to change for your speculative ideas. You have the right to live your life the way you want, and we have the right to lead our life the way Prabhupada said it. And that won’t change.
Any questions? Visnukripa.
{Question from the audience} One must mean, then, that with ISKCON still making lots of headway all over the world, that the institution itself is .... (muffled).
{TKG interrupts the question} Look at this institution in this city before you talk about progress all over the world. I came here when we were on 111 Grossley. We were in a three story building that was like a shoebox. Now if you consider where it was then and how it is now, so much progress has been made. Now you can argue yes, that progress is the result of so many persons. Certainly it is the result of so many people’s efforts. But how can you deny that there’s progress being made? Now progress is being made on this building. And the building is going to go up, where they’ll be a (muffled) of ten classrooms. Progress is being made. People are buying properties here, they’re gradually moving here. If you don’t think that this is pleasing to the deities? I am amazed how people worship the deities, and still cannot appreciate the Vaisnavas. It amazes me. What does the scripture say about worshipping the deity but not appreciating the Vaisnavas? Can you tell me, what does it say in the scripture? What is the nature of such a person, who can worship the deity in whatever way they do worship, whether it’s by singing, or, you know, dressing or cooking, or giving donations to the deity, but at the same time cannot appreciate the Vaisnavas. Is that actual worship of the deity? Tell me, honestly, is that worship of the deity? If your heart constantly feels affronted by devotees, is it really that that is the worship of the deity?
What is your question?
{Muffled question from the audience}
TKG: I think the person is spiritually satisfied personally, they will be much more able to appreciate other devotees. But if spiritually they’re very dissatisfied, that dissatisfaction comes out in general feelings for others. Therefore I gave that example from the Bible, that when the mote is in your own eye, you see it everywhere else. Beauty is in the eyes of the beholder. I see people who are very critical of the leadership here. Why don’t they ask me if I feel critical of the leadership? If they have faith in me, why don’t they ask me? And if I’m not so critical, then why do they remain so critical? This is my question. This disciple of Prabhupada, he disagreed with Prabhupada. Whereas the other disciple, even though he didn’t agree with Prabhupada, because Prabhupada said it, and he accepted Prabhupada as guru and authority, he said “even though I can’t understand, I will agree to follow.” If we’re not going to have this type of arrangement, how can we function? If each and every person here thinks they are an authority unto themselves, and they have the right, that their idea is correct, what kind of a situation, where will you find a family that can stay together with such a situation? If each member of the family individually thinks they know what is the right thing, and they insist on it, will that family stay together? In a company, if every worker in the company says, “I know what is the right thing”, will that company be profitable? There has to be a head. There has to be a head.
{Muffled question from the audience}
TKG: How (muffled) the blasphemy of the devotees? What is the answer? What do you think is the answer? Do you know what the difference between criticism, positive criticism, and blasphemy is? Positive criticism is when you have no malice in your heart, and you try to correct a person. When there is not the slightest malice in your heart, that’s positive criticism.
There’s a system of correcting something. If you have a criticism, you go to the Temple President. If you have a President of the Temple President, you go to the GBC. So where can be the blasphemy? If you don’t agree with something, there’s a system of addressing the wrong, if you think it’s wrong. But what if the person who you address tells you, “I don’t think it’s wrong”? In a court of law, sometimes a person brings a case. He doesn’t always win the case. Sometimes the judge says no. Then you have to accept that. Some people take the law into their own hands. They become so angry they can’t accept the judgment.
There’s already so much tension in the world. There’s already so much quarrel in the world. At least amongst our own selves let us live harmoniously. And if you find it so difficult to do that, then there are enough temples in Houston that you must be able to find one you can feel at home in, if you don’t feel at home here. Who’s forcing you to be here? We’re not forcing anyone to be here. I wonder if people would be as tolerant in any other temple, if someone is constantly criticizing, I wonder how long people will tolerate it?
And mind you, that disciple who disagreed with Prabhupada did very great service for many years. It’s not that he was a rogue. He did so much good service for so many years. But that last thing with Prabhupada was the beginning of his falldown. And eventually he met a terrible fate. I read the last time I was here about Hamoka, the son-in-law of Sarvabhauma Bhattacarya, and how he offended Caitanya Mahaprabhu. And so many strong statements are there in our scripture about blasphemy. If blasphemy cannot be tolerated.
If you blaspheme, the only way away from that is described. Because you used your tongue to blaspheme, you have to use your tongue to beg forgiveness. Otherwise, if they don’t do that, according to scripture, the tongue is supposed to be cut out, and then the person is supposed to be killed. Now we don’t say that. Scripture says it, we don’t say it, because it’s against the law. So those things cannot be done at the present in the United States of America or practically anywhere in the world, because Manu-Samhita is not followed. But Manu-Samhita says that. A blasphemer must apologize, with the same tongue that he blasphemed he must beg forgiveness from the person he offended. If he doesn’t, his tongue should be cut out, and the person should be put to death. And then you should kill yourself, for having heard the blasphemy. Now who is going to do any of that? Nobody can do any of these things. It’s not enough that the tongue is cut out and then they killed the person, then you have to kill yourself for hearing the blasphemy. That means blasphemy is so injurious that it destroys your spiritual life. And there’s no way around it. You hear blasphemy, you become affected. Therefore, Caitanya Mahaprabhu, before even hearing the words of a Mayavadi, only seeing an impersonalist by form, he would jump into the Ganges with all of his clothing on. Just when he saw the face of an impersonalist. He became so horrified that to purify himself, that image that had come on the mind, he would jump in the Mother Ganges, and pray, “please purify me”.
I gave a lecture in Los Angeles once about blasphemy of gurus, and I was very strong. I thought I never would tolerate anyone blaspheming Prabhupada. I never would tolerate it. Never would tolerate such a thing. So then one person in the audience said, you know, and then I said many strong things, so one person in the audience, ha ha, I won’t tell who. Anyway, it was quite a, you might know this person (indiscernible). Anyway, I’ll tell the story. One person was sitting in the audience, and he said, “So you mean to say if someone blasphemes your guru, you must stop him in any case?” I said, “Yes”. So that person got up and he started to come at me and attack me. And immediately the ksatriyas in the temple grabbed him, hauled him out of the temple, and beat him mercilessly. But six or seven months later that person came to Dallas, he surrendered, and became my disciple. Now I can only think that because of the mercy of that beating, he changed his consciousness.
{Muffled question from the audience}
TKG: No, I can’t recommend such a thing. I don’t recommend that we beat people. It’s against the law, and I don’t recommend such things. But one way or another we cannot hear such blasphemy. That has to not be tolerated.
{Muffled question from the audience}
TKG: The question is, sometimes someone makes many blasphemous comments, or writes many blasphemous comments, they have no logic to them, they have no facts to them, they have no, no sense to them, but innocent people read or hear such foolishness, and they have no knowledge of their own to defeat it, so they become bewildered. So what should be done? Two things. One is that you should vigorously present the truth, so that people have a chance to know what is the facts, then if such people, after knowing what is the truth, still choose to believe in such rubbish, then it is like the Pied Piper playing his pipe, and all the rats are following. Then why are you afraid. If such a person, after hearing the truth, still chooses to believe in falsity and foolishness, then you have done your duty.
Our duty is to give books to everyone we meet on the street. Now if people take a book and still they don’t follow, at least we have done our duty, we have tried to help them. We have begged them, please. Just like our temple is here, we are trying so hard, we’re worshipping the deity, we’re trying to build Hare Krsna town, we’re trying our best to preach, we’re chanting our rounds, we are following as closely as we can what Prabhupada has written. If still people are displeased with us what can we do? I just like, I see personally so many sincere devotees in our society, so many sannyasi, strictly following Krsna consciousness principles, for years and years and years and years, sincerely. It is not easy. We are born in Western countries, coming from very sinful backgrounds and after hearing from Prabhupada we gave up all sin.
