He is Not a Liberated Person


Feb 5, UK (SUN) — He is not a liberated person, and therefore, he cannot initiate any person to Krishna Consciousness.

This is in response to Raghunatha Puri das prabhu's article, "Guru Seeing God Seeing Guru", in which he wrote:

    "I think that Mahesh Raja's equating guru with directly seeing (and speaking with) Krishna is not applicable to post-Srila Prabhupada ISKCON, and it does not accurately reflect Srila Prabhupada's own stated ideas as to who can initiate disciples within his movement.

    I'm basing this assertion on this excerpt from a letter written to Hamsaduta on December 3, 1968:

      "Next January there will be an examination on this Bhagavad-gita. Papers will be sent by me to all centers, and those securing the minimum passing grade will be given the title as Bhakti-sastri. Similarly, another examination will be held on Lord Caitanya's Appearance Day in February, 1970 and it will be upon Srimad-Bhagavatam and Bhagavad-gita. Those passing will get the title of Bhakti-vaibhava.

      Another examination will be held sometimes in 1971 on the four books, Bhagavad-gita, Srimad-Bhagavatam, Teachings of Lord Caitanya, and Nectar of Devotion. One who will pass this examination will be awarded with the title of Bhaktivedanta. I want that all of my spiritual sons and daughters will inherit this title of Bhaktivedanta, so that the family transcendental diploma will continue through the generations. Those possessing the title of Bhaktivedanta will be allowed to initiate disciples. Maybe by 1975, all of my disciples will be allowed to initiate and increase the numbers of the generations. That is my program. So we should not simply publish these books for reading by outsiders, but our students must be well versed in all of our books so that we can be prepared to defeat all opposing parties in the matter of self-realization".

    Presumably, Srila Prabhupada didn't expect that all of his disciples would become maha-bhagavats in such a short period of time.

    But - according to his vision expressed therein - devotees who faithfully followed the regulative principles and became well versed in Krishna conscious philosophy could initiate their own disciples within ISKCON."

Srila Prabhupada did NOT say in the letter that the disciples are THEIRS upon such initiation.

The above quote is about encouraging devotees to read Srila Prabhupada's books -- it is not about giving Diksa on a liberated platform to a madhyama adhikari. The initiation spoken is based on FORMALITY seeing the context of the quote.

There is a BIG difference in initiating 1) as a formality on behalf of Srila Prabhupada, disciples remain Srila Prabhupada's; and 2) initiating Madhyama adhikari. (Please refer to my article)

Whereas they CAN initiate as a formality on behalf of Srila Prabhupada, they can NOT give Diksa as per Srimad Bhagavatam 10.2.18. This requires a liberated person.

    Srila Prabhupada's Letter to Janardana, April 26, 1968:

    On the whole, you may know that he is not a liberated person, and therefore, he cannot initiate any person to Krishna Consciousness. It requires special spiritual benediction from higher authorities.

Further points on this are:

    1) The letter was written in 1968;

    2) From 1968 to 1977 there was no initiation by anyone except Srila Prabhupada; and

    3) In 1977 Srila Prabhupada gave an order to the society, July 9th 1977 the Ritvik initiation system -- the disciples were to be Srila Prabhupada's.

As for saying "Post Prabhupada", there is no such thing, as you have to answer TWO questions:

    1) EXACTLY when did Srila Prabhupada EVER state that he has STOPPED giving DIKSA at Madhyama Adhikari stage to the countless generations of devotees still to come? (Refer to my article)

    2) Since NO ORDER from Srila Prabhupada was EVER given that they ARE Acarya (Uttama Adhikari) HOW can they give DIKSA? I am NOT talking of FORMALITY of initiation. (Refer to my article).

Regarding Satsvarupa, you wrote:

    "I don't think that his initiated disciples should be discouraged from continuing to accept him as a guru. My basic understanding is that if a person sincerely follows someone as a spiritual master, then they will go where that person is in the next life."

Satsvarupa is a conditioned soul, he can NOT deliver them -- this shows his dishonesty. He is cheating them and his own delivery is also doubtful. He is more likely to go to hell with his disciples following him. Read below:

    Srila Prabhupada's Letter to Satsvarupa, September 20, 1968:

    "Our relationship is eternal. But if somebody lags behind, so in spite of our eternal relationship one may not meet other at the destination. Just like a flock of birds--although very intimately related, everyone of them has to fly in the sky by individual strength. If one is less strong, the other cannot keep him in the sky. That is the law of nature. So long everyone of us is strong in Krishna Consciousness, there is no doubt, you can fly in the spiritual sky and meet together without failure."

    Srila Prabhupada's Letter to Jayapataka, July 11, 1969:

    And anyone who defies and therefore disconnects the relationship with the Spiritual Master can hardly expect the assistance of the Spiritual Master life after life.

    Srimad-Bhagavatam 1.19.37 Purport - The Appearance of Sukadeva Gosvami:

    The pseudo spiritual master flatters the so-called disciple, and thereby both the master and his ward go to hell without a doubt.

    Srila Prabhupada's Letter to Tusta Krsna, December 14, 1972:

    As for your next question, can only a few pure devotees deliver others, anyone, if he is a pure devotee he can deliver others, he can become spiritual master. But unless he on that platform he should not attempt it. Then both of them will to go to hell, like blind men leading the blind.

    Srimad-Bhagavatam 6.7.14 - Indra Offends His Spiritual Master, Brhaspati:

    "Leaders who have fallen into ignorance and who mislead people by directing them to the path of destruction [as described in the previous verse] are, in effect, boarding a stone boat, and so too are those who blindly follow them. A stone boat would be unable to float and would sink in the water with its passengers. Similarly, those who mislead people go to hell, and their followers go with them."

Without karma being burned up, how can one go back to Godhead? Karma is burned up when he realizes his constitutional position which is at Madhyama Adhikari stage (Caitanya-caritamrta Antya 4.192) where proper initiation takes place. What Satsvarupa has received so far is formality initiation - that's all. His disciples are at risk as he is NOT a bona fide spiritual master; b) Satsvarupa himself is not free from Karma so how can he rescue others? He has yet to come to the level of Madhyama adhikari stage, which is **properly initiated** stage, or else he CAN descend into animal species of life.

    Caitanya-caritamrta Madhya 15.108 -- The Lord Accepts Prasada at the House of Sarvabhauma Bhattacarya:

    "Unless one is initiated by a bona fide spiritual master, all his devotional activities are useless. A person who is not properly initiated can descend again into the animal species."

    Bhagavad-gita 4.19 -- Transcendental Knowledge

    yasya sarve samarambhah
    tam ahuh panditam budhah

    yasya--one whose; sarve--all sorts of; samarambhah--in all attempts; kama--desire for sense gratification; sankalpa--determination; varjitah--are devoid of; jnana--of perfect knowledge; agni--fire; dagdha--being burnt by; karmanam--the performer; tam--him; ahuh--declare; panditam--learned; budhah--of those who know.

    One is understood to be in full knowledge whose every act is devoid of desire for sense gratification. He is said by sages to be a worker whose fruitive action is burned up by the fire of perfect knowledge.

    Only a person in full knowledge can understand the activities of a person in Krsna consciousness. Because the person in Krsna consciousness is devoid of all kinds of sense-gratificatory propensities, it is to be understood that he has burned up the reactions of his work by *perfect knowledge of his constitutional position as the eternal servitor* of the Supreme Personality of Godhead. He is actually learned who has attained to such perfection of knowledge. Development of this knowledge of the eternal servitorship of the Lord is compared to fire. Such a fire, once kindled, can burn up all kinds of reactions to work.


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