Speculation Queen Sinking Straight to the Bottom of the Ocean of Nonsense
BY: BALAVIDYA DASA
Feb 1, USA (SUN) — In the previous postings, "No Contradiction in the Teaching of Srila Prabhupada on the Fall of the Jiva", "Envy Rules, Kindly Follow", and "No Evidence Available in the Vedas of Fall from Goloka through Envy", it has been pointed out that the proposition that 'the jiva initially falls from Krsna-prema in Goloka' to the material world relies on disingenuous argumentation and misinterpretation of Srila Prabhupada's statements. These tactics are inherently weak, fallacious, and to fire a sastric torpedo through the floundering bow of such a ship is an easy endeavor, therefore, we see, the 'Goloka-envy-fall-vadis' in panic are trying to re-float their sinking ship by presumptuously posturing that they alone are giving the "Prabhupada siddhanta". However, as they proudly jut their chins out and stare masterfully into the sky awaiting the applause of fools, it would be better that they look down around their feet and notice that their Speculation Queen is headed straight to the bottom of the Ocean of Nonsense. If they don't want to plummet to the murky ocean bottom and join the already sunken Rtvik Queen, then they had better quickly head for the lifeboats named Guru, Sadhu, and Sastra.
For the learned readers of the Sampradaya Sun, we would like to illustrate how the tactics mentioned above have been used by the 'fall through Goloka envy' proponents. In fact, the following quote is drawn from one of their postings and is actually a wonderful cast-iron declaration by Srila Prabhupada that the jiva never falls from Goloka. However, in the distorted minds of the 'Goloka-envy-fall-vadis', this same quotation is used in the completely opposite direction. Amazingly, in effect, they argue that a sinking ship riddled with sastric torpedoes is floating nicely. Has white become black in their minds?
The quoted conversation from a lecture, Caitanya-caritamrta Adi 7.108, 2.18.1967:
Bhaktijana: When the souls that were never conditioned at all..., do they also have the independence?
Prabhupada: Yes, but they have not misused. They know that "I am meant for Krsna's service," and they are happy in Krsna's service.
Bhaktijana: Could they ever misuse it?
Prabhupada: Yes, they can misuse it also. That power is there. Yes?
Devotee: Well, I believe you once said that once a conditioned soul becomes perfected and gets out of the material world and he goes to Krsnaloka, there's no possibility of falling back.
Prabhupada: No! There is possibility, but he does not come. Just like after putting your hand in the fire, you never put it again if you are really intelligent. So those who are going back to Godhead, they become intelligent.
In this short section of conversation, Srila Prabhupada clearly explains that because of "independence" that is never lost even in the Supreme Abode there is a "possibility" of the jiva falling to the material world, however immediately after "possibility" Srila Prabhupada states "but he does not come". So the conclusion is that this "possibility" is only theoretical, because "he (the jiva) does not come". This is obvious, especially as just a few lines earlier Srila Prabhupada has explained that the jivas in the Supreme Abode "Know that 'I am meant for Krsna's service' and they are happy in Krsna's service." This is the all-encompassing perfection of the Supreme Abode: the jivas still retain their constitutional independence, however this independence is never misused since they "know" (immersed in cit-skati) and are "happy" (immersed in hladini-shakti). Thus their unbounded devotion in the Supreme Abode to their beloved Krsna eternally conquers misuse of their constitutional independence, which is now employed in creatively planning the pleasure of Their Beloved Krsna eternally in the Supreme Abode wherefrom there is no fall.
For the realized Vaisnava, knowledgeable in the sastra, how could it be any other way? Rebellious envy in the presence of the unlimitedly attractive, unlimitedly affectionate, entrancing beautiful radiant reservoir of all pleasure, Oh Supreme Lord what an affront this assertion is to You, Your Beloved Devotees, and Your Inconceivably Wonderful Supreme Abode and Eternal Pastimes.!!! What fool will propose such pure nonsense?
However, there is one. And he uses the above conversation to assert this foolishness. How is this possible? By word jugglery and mental speculation. One person, who shall remain unnamed, presents the above short conversation with selected words, underlined and emboldened:
No! There is possibility.
After this mistaken emphasis on "possibility", he completely ignores the conditioning addendum "But he does not come." His postured interpretation of "possibility", thus completely runs in the opposite direction to "He does not come." In his world, "possibility" means "He certainly does come." The exact opposite of what Srila Prabhupada states!
Srila Prabhupada clearly states "He [the jiva] does not come [to the material world]". But this essayist presents this conversation as a proof of his assertion that the jiva comes to the material world from the Supreme Abode. One wonders how anybody could get the obvious meaning so wrong…
Actually, this short conversation is cast-iron proof that the jiva never falls from the Supreme Abode. Particularly, because, in the context of this conversation, the only reason why the jiva would come to the material world is also discussed. The only reason the jiva would come to the material world is by misusing his independence, however right at the beginning of the dialogue Srila Prabhupada elucidates that the liberated jiva does not misuses his independence through "knowledge" and "happiness".
So we must thank this personality for not only disproving what he is trying to prove, but also displaying for the readers of the Sampradaya Sun that his argumentation is clearly based on sloppy word jugglery.
Now the posturing of faithfulness to Srila Prabhupada: This essayist declares in the title of his piece that he only "needs one moon". The implication is that only Srila Prabhupada's words should be used to discuss this matter and that anyone who doesn't restrict his quotations in this way is somehow being unfaithful to Srila Prabhupada. Well, I agree that Srila Prabhupada's conversations are sufficient to resolve this matter, however as this essayist constantly (and farcically) misinterprets Srila Prabhupada statements, then we are quoting from sadhu and sastra to expose this misinterpretation. This is the ontology of siddhanta taught by Srila Prabhupada: guru, sadhu, and sastra. So it is either ignorant or disingenuous to postulate that when this age-old system is used it is equivalent to being unfaithful to Srila Prabhupada. Thus, again, we see that what this essayist asserts is the exact opposite of what Srila Prabhupada teaches…
Furthermore, as this essayist asserts that Srila Prabhupada teaches that the jivas fall from the Supreme Abode how does he explain:
"The conclusion is that no one falls from the spiritual world, or Vaikuntha planet, for it is the eternal abode." Srila Prabhupada, purport, Srimad-Bhagavatam 3.16.26.
Again his basic idea is in complete opposition to what Srila Prabhupada says, and yet he postures that he is the one being faithful to Srila Prabhupada?
We repeat again, as he kindly terms "Show the Sastra" to support the odd proposition that the jivas fall from the Supreme Abode through envy. But amazingly, in his essay he dismisses the call for this ultimately decisive direct proof from the Vedas. Srila Prabhupada thousands of times teaches that the Vedas are the ultimate authority non-different from the Supreme Lord under which all gurus and sadhus are subordinate. And yet the essayist dismisses the call for proof directly from the Vedas. So again he is in exact opposition to the teachings of Srila Prabhupada, which he postures to be faithful to. What humbug.
Here again is the Vedas describing the fall of the jiva from his devotionally nascent position within the margin between the material and spiritual worlds that is the Casual Ocean after emanation from Maha-Visnu. In the Brhad-aranyaka Upanisad, 4.3.9, we find:
tasya va etasya purunasya dve eva sthane bhavata
idam ca paraloka-sthanam ca sandhyam trtiyam
svapna-sthanam tasmin sandhye sthane tisthan ete
ubhe sthane pasyati idam ca paraloka-sthanam ca
"The jiva has access to two places, both of which he may seek, this material world and the spiritual realm. He is situated in svapna-sthanam, the dream-like third state, on the margin of these two worlds [the Casual Ocean]. From that middle position he is able to see both the material and the spiritual worlds."
"Further, the following statement from the Brhad-aranyaka Upanisad, 4.3.18, describes the nature of the marginal position of the jiva:
tad yaths mahs matsya ubhe kule'
nusancarati purvam ca param caivam
evsyam purusa etsv ubhav antav
anusancarati svapnantam ca buddhantam ca
"The symptoms of the marginal existence are like those of a huge aquatic who is capable of living on both the eastern and western sides of the river at his own will. Similarly, the jiva soul, situated within the waters of the Causal Ocean, which lies between the material and spiritual worlds, is able to reside in both the dream world of matter and the spiritual world of divine wakefulness."
As we see above, the Upanishad explains that the jiva chooses either the material or spiritual world "at his own will". Thus he misuses his independence in the Casual Ocean, not, as Srila Prabhupada explains, from within the Supreme Abode of the Lord.
Now "Show the Sastra" to substantiate the "fall-from-Goloka-envy" theory. Of course there are no Vedas to substantiate such apasiddhanta, and therefore the befuddled proponents will continue with their beloved mental speculation and false posturing of faithfulness, when in fact the opposite is true.
We hope this is found helpful,
Your servant, Balavidya dasa
