It Appears Balavidya dasa does not Fully Comprehend
BY: BHAKTA ROD DAVIS
Jan 8, MELBOURNE, AUSTRALIA (SUN) — Great acaryas never stray from the conclusions of guru, sadhu and sastra, indeed there is absolutely no contradiction in Prabhupada's teachings
The conclusion is that no one falls from the spiritual world, or Vaikuntha planet, for it is the eternal abode." Purport, Srimad-Bhagavatam 3.16.26 .
It appears Balavidya dasa does not fully comprehend what this actually means
Great acaryas never stray from the conclusions of guru, sadhu and sastra Bhaktivinoda Thakura says that the jivas come under the influence of maya "only when they forget their natural function as Krsna's servitors." Srila Prabhupada says we have forgotten our relationship as Krsna's eternal servants, Srimad-Bhagavatam says it, and now we find Bhaktivinoda Thakura saying the same thing. So guru, sastra, and sadhu are in agreement on this fundamental point.
Just as God has His Svarupa Vigraha, so Jiva has eternal chit Vigraha. That chit body is manifested in Vaikuntha. Being in material world, it is hidden under two coverings . . . . The conceit [the dictionary meaning of conceit is "thought"] of chit body of Jiva which was existent prior to its contact with matter is just and natural. But after the contact with matter, the conceit of self has become foreign and unjust. [Shri Chaitanya Shikshamritam, pp. 156-157]
The jiva has chosen to forget that he is the eternal servitor of Krsna; for this fault Maya has tied him at the neck. [Shri Chaitanya Shikshamritam, p. 44]
The reason of the jiva's bondage is the forgetfulness of his essential svarup as servant of God. [Shri Chaitanya Shikshamritam, p. 160]
"When he forgets Krsna he is averse to serve Krsna"
"The perpetual nature of a Jiva is the eternal active servant of Krsna in their nitya-siddha origin thay never falls down from Vaikuntha. A nitya-baddha-jiva exists simultaneously as a separate and non-separated entity. In other words when one chooses to forget Krsna, one is unwilling to serve Krsna as their Krishna Conscious nitya-siddha self and therefore it is that aversion to Krishna that causes the the living entity to imagine, think or dream they are no longer in Vaikuntha. That secondary self is the nitya-baddha jiva condition that enters the mahat-tattva of divided time and space and is given material form (vessels) by Maha -Vishnu to live out their non Krishna conscious imagination"
Srila Prabhupada - "Formerly we were with Krsna in His lila"
In 1972, a devotee in Australia began saying that the living entities in this material world were originally situated in the brahmajyoti.
According to Madhudvisa Prabhu and Caru Prabhu, who were both in Australia at the time, this caused some fairly widespread disturbance.
Srila Prabhupada therefore dictated a response, a typed copy of which was retained by Madhudvisa Prabhu. This is the famous crow and tal fruit message. Madhudvisa has said that it was distributed to the Australian temple presidents. In this statement, given in direct response to inquiries from his students on the question of the origin of the jiva,
Srila Prabhupada gives many definitive answers to the questions facing us. He intended these not just as answers to a particular devotee but as his official answer to a philosophical controversy that had arisen in the Society:
We never had any occasion when we were separated from Krsna. Just like one man is dreaming and he forgets himself. In dream he creates himself in different forms: now I am the King discussing like that. This creation of himself is as seer and subject matter or seen, two things. But as soon as the dream is over, the 'seen' disappears. But the seer remains. Now he is in his original position.
Our separation from Krsna is like that. We dream this body and so many relationships with other things. First the attachment comes to enjoy sense gratification. Even with Krsna desire for sense gratification is there. There is a dormant attitude for forgetting Krsna and creating an atmosphere for enjoying independently. Just like at the edge of the beach, sometimes the water covers, sometimes there is dry sand, coming and going. Our position is like that, sometimes covered, sometimes free, just like at the edge of the tide. As soon as we forget, immediately the illusion is there. Just like as soon as we sleep, dream is there.
Srila Prabhupada: "The jiva is originally with Krsna. But even with Krsna "there is a dormant attitude for forgetting Krsna and creating an atmosphere for enjoying independently."
Srila Prabhupada sets up a very strong identity between the original state (nitya-siddha) and the final state of liberation. He says we are just like a man dreaming. The man forgets himself (nitya-siddha). He creates a dream identity (nitya-baddha). And when he wakes from that dream identity, he is once more in his original position.
There are two states. The free state (nitya-siddha) and the covered state (nitya baddha). The free state is "with Krsna." There is no suggestion that the original state is "fallen." There is also no suggestion of an original free state that is different from the final free state.
We cannot say therefore that we are not with Krsna. As soon as we try to become Lord, immediately we are covered by Maya. Formerly we were with Krsna in His lila, or sport. But this covering of Maya may be of very, very, very, very long duration, therefore many creations are coming and going. Due to this long period of time it is sometimes said that we are ever-conditioned. But his long duration of time becomes very insignificant when one actually comes to Krsna consciousness.
Srila Prabhupada - "Originally everyone is nitya-siddha. Nitya-siddha krsna-bhakti 'sadhya' kabhu naya sravanadi-suddha-citte karaye udaya Every living entity originally nitya-siddha". Srimad-Bhagavatam Class 7.9.4- Mayapur, February 18, 1977
Srila Prabhupada -"The living entity should become purified and regain his svarūpa, his original identity" Srimad Bhagavatam 8.24.48
Just like in a dream we are thinking very long time, but as soon as we awaken we look at our watch and see it has been a moment only. Just like with Krsna's friends, they were kept asleep for one year by Brahma, but when they woke up and Krsna returned before them, they considered that only a moment had passed.
The idea that we were always conditioned (nitya-baddha) is directly rejected. Srila Prabhupada says, "Formerly we were with Krsna in His lila, or sport."
So this dreaming condition is called non-liberated life, and this is just like a dream. Although in this material calculation it is a long, long period, as soon as we come to Krsna consciousness then this period is considered as a second. For example, Jaya and Vijaya. They had their lila with Krsna, but they had to come down for their little mistake. They were given mukti, merging into the Brahmasayujya after being killed three times as demons. This Brahmasayujya mukti is non-permanent. Every living entity wants pleasure, but Brahmasayujya is minus pleasure.
There is eternal existence only. So when they do not find transcendental bliss, they fall down to make a compromise with material bliss. Just like Vivekananda founded so many schools and hospitals. So even Lord Brahma, he is still material and wants to lord it over. He may come down to become a germ, but then he may rise up to Krsna consciousness and go back to home, back to Godhead.
This is the position. So when I say Yes, there is eternal lila with Krsna, that means on the evidence of Jaya-Vijaya. Unless one develops full devotional service to Krsna, he goes up only to Brahmasayujya but falls down. But after millions and millions of years of keeping oneself away from the lila of the Lord, when one comes to Krsna consciousness this period becomes insignificant, just like dreaming.
Here Srila Prabhupada directly compares the history of the souls in this material world with the history of Jaya and Vijaya. He speaks of "keeping oneself away from the lila of the Lord."
Because he falls down from Brahmasayujya, he thinks that may be his origin, but he does not remember that before that even he was with Krsna. So the conclusion is that whatever may be our past, let us come to Krsna consciousness and immediately join Krsna. Just like with a diseased man, it is a waste of time to try to find out how he has become diseased; better to spend time curing the disease.
Here Srila Prabhupada directly rejects the idea that the conditioned soul was originally in the brahmajyoti. Srila Prabhupada then recommends that we not waste time with the question of our origin. But note that he first gave clear answers to the question. We should follow the same policy. Answer the question as above, and then suggest we not waste further time with it.
On the top of the tree there is a nice tal-fruit. A crow went there and the fruit fell down. Some panditas, big big learned scholars, saw this and discussed: the fruit fell due to the crow agitating the limb. No, the fruit fell simultaneously with the crow landing and frightened the crow so he flew away. No, the fruit was ripe and the weight of the crow landing broke it from the branch, and so on and so on. What is the use of such discussions? So whether you were in the Brahmasayujya or with Krsna in His lila, at the moment you are in neither, so the best policy is to develop your Krsna consciousness and go there, never mind what is your origin.
Brahmasayujya and Krsna lila-both may be possible, but when you are coming down from Brahmasayujya or when you are coming down from Krsna lila, that remains a mystery. But at the present moment we are in Maya's clutches, so at present our only hope is to become Krsna conscious and go back to Home, back to Godhead.
The real position is servant of Krsna, and servant of Krsna means in Krsna lila. Directly or indirectly, always we are serving Krsna's lila. Even in dream. Just like we cannot go out of the sun when it is daytime, so where is the chance of going out of Krsna lila?
The cloud may be there, it may become very gray and dim, but still the sunlight is there, everywhere, during the daytime. Because I am part and parcel of Krsna, I am always connected. My finger, even though it may be diseased, remains part and parcel of my body. Therefore, we try to treat it, cure it, because it is part and parcel. So Krsna comes Himself when we forget Him, or He sends His representative.
What about the statement "Brahmasayujya and Krsna lila-both may be possible, but when you are coming down from Brahmasayujya or when you are coming down from Krsna lila, that remains a mystery." Is Srila Prabhupada taking away everything he has said up to this point, and leaving the matter once more in confusion? Does he mean that we really could originally be from the brahmajyoti? No. This statement has to be considered in light of what has come before, in such a way that all the statements remain true. Srila Prabhupada has made two points absolutely clear.
First, the original position of the soul is with Krsna in His lila, or sport. Second, the souls are not originally from the brahmajyoti, but impersonalists in this material world, themselves fallen from their original position in Krsna's pastimes, may enter and fall down from the brahmajyoti many times during the course of successive creations of the universe. Therefore, for any particular soul it may be said that we do not know if it is coming, during this particular creation, from Krsna's eternal lila or from the brahmajyoti.
Taken in this way, all the statements remain true in a consistent way. Of course, we know from other statements by Srila Prabhupada, quoted elsewhere in this paper, that the jiva is not from the brahmajyoti and was originally with Krsna in His spiritual abode. At the very end, Srila Prabhupada puts things in clear perspective when he says that we are always part and parcel of Krsna, just as a finger is always part of the body although it may be diseased. So in the same way we are always in touch with Krsna, either in his eternal lila or his lila of manifesting this material creation.
