This is the last word in poor taste. What was she thinking? Was she thinking? Or, maybe it is a result of that recent car accident she had where she suffered a head injury? Could that be impeding her sapience? But judging from her January post I don't think we can attribute it to a head injury but rather to a far more deadly ailment "foot in mouth disease." And, it seems that the only time she doesn't have her foot in her mouth is when she is changing feet.
In civilized society if parents fight they do it privately, away from the children. And, in extended families the aunts and uncles do not fight in front of the nieces and nephews. By extension god siblings do not fight in front of the spiritual children. In this case it is even worse: H.H. Bhakti Vikasa Swami is not even present and Govinda dasi hurls abuse at him to his disciples and followers. This is simply the worst possible offensive mentality. No matter how you may feel about a particular guru, and there are a few that I don't particularly care for, it is simply beyond the pale in Vaisnava culture or any culture to insult and criticize a senior person in front of their dependents. It is never acceptable in Vaisnava circles to interfere in the guru-disciple relationship by criticizing the guru to his disciples. You may despise that guru, but when you are with his disciples you keep your opinions to yourself.
Govinda dasi is very fond of vaunting herself as an intimate associate of Srila Prabhupada in the early days and of reminding all us poor unfortunate worms as to how unqualified we are because unlike her, we didn't have that opportunity. (She is also fond of telling us that anything that came after 1969 when she left Prabhupada's service is bogus and only she knows what Srila Prabhupada wanted. But we will leave that for another day.) But I can only ask myself if this kind of boorish, uncultured behavior is the result of such intimate association with a Maha Bhagavata then something is wrong. Either Srila Prabhupada's association is not purifying (obviously not the case) or she didn't actually absorb anything from Srila Prabhupada but was more like a piece of furniture – in the room but not conscious. As Tamala Krsna Goswami famously said, "before you can become Krsna Conscious you have to become conscious."
And Govinda dasi is not the only senior female Prabhupada disciple to behave in this loathsome way. It is reported by several eye witnesses and disciples of Bhakti Vikasa Swami that Malati dd and some of her god sisters directly went to several of Maharaj's disciples who were manning a book table in Vrndavan last year at Kartika and told them that Bhakti Vikasa Swami was misguiding them and that they had taken shelter of the wrong person, and other such tripe. And, Prasanta dd in a fit of Gallic fury swept the book tables clean, knocking all the contents like Ramayana and the bio of Srila Bhaktisiddhanta into the dirt, and threatened to break their heads.
Sundari Radhika Devi Dasi: Govinda dasi, I find your entire comment brutally offensive. You come on page of HH Bhakti Vikasa Swami, where all of us, his disciples are, and your only contribution here is to offend him on a personal level. What do you think, what kind of reaction you may get? Are you actually aware of what you wrote? HH Bhakti Vikasa Swami is a senior SP's disciple, a sannyasi, a guru, and highly erudite scholar of many books, loved and respected by many of his Godbrothers and Godsisters, and according to you, he is a mad person, who came out of his mind, and lost any sense with reality.
Your comment does not serve anybody; it is just unending source of offenses. You said that you like HH BVKS and that he is dear to you. If someone is dear to you, then you won't go on internet , on public forum and write that person is crazy and other nasty stuff about them. If we love and care for someone, we contact them privately, not in public. HH BVKS is not running this page, and he is not on FB. So what do you think, how are you helping him by informing him that he is mad according to your psycho analysis? How are you helping to us disciples by writing this way?
I will mention again; HH Bhakti Vikasa Swami is a faithful disciple who is trying to help Srila Prabhupada in his mission of establishing Vedic culture. What are you doing Govinda Dasi?
Seems you are just offending those who are trying to help Srila Prabhupada.
Hladini Dasi: Dear Mataji, obeisances unto you and to your glorious service to Srila Prabhupada!!! So many years you have served Srila Prabhupada with so much dedication and care, but the only thing that is so surprising to me is that physically you were so near to him, but yet it seems that you are still so far away from him because you never understood his mind, what he wanted to accomplish, his goal, his long term vision for ISKCON.
In this post you have accused BV Swami of losing his good sense. He is only one of the few members of ISKCON today who are pushing its members to follow Srila Prabhupada's teachings very strictly. And you accuse him of losing his good sense. That means you don't want the members of ISKCON to follow Srila Prabhupada's teachings very strictly? Does it make any sense for a personality like you who has spent so many years in close proximity with Srila Prabhupada to make a comment like this?
You say that BV Swami's ideas are absurd but if you read the book you will find that these are not his ideas. These are the ideas of yours and his spiritual master A.C. Bhaktivedanta Swami Srila Prabhupada. So do you mean to say that Srila Prabhupada's teachings were absurd?
So my humble request is that please don't behave like an arm chair critic. If you think you know the teachings of Srila Prabhupada better than BV Swami, then I encourage you to go ahead write a book refuting each and every statement of BV Swami (from his book Masters and Mothers) and show us how to understand Srila Prabhupada's statements.
If not, then please apologize to His holiness for publicly and maliciously calling him a mad person.
Sundari Radhika Devi Dasi: Govinda Dasi, you said: "We are not living in the Vedic age, this is Kali. It is absurd to endorse many of the ideas he is promoting, very sad."
Your statement is not true at all according to HDG Srila Prabhupada.
Sometimes we hear devotees in a cynical mood state that we are not living in "Vedic times" that that was 5000 years ago. Here Srila Prabhupada counters that line of thought. In another conversation that I heard but can not trace at this time Srila Prabhupada said to a similar challenge that "Lord Caitanya was Vedic;" so not that it was something of the past. Srila Prabhupada himself was a perfect representative of Lord Krsna's Vedic culture.
HH Bhakti Vikasa Swami is a faithful disciple who is trying to help Srila Prabhupada in his mission of establishing Vedic culture. What are you doing Govinda Dasi?
Seems you are just spitting on those who are trying to help Srila Prabhupada.
"Devotee: If the Vedic culture was a superior culture, how come man gave up the Vedic culture to take to the materialistic life? one
Prabhupada: No one has given up. You are taking up. No one has given up.
Devotee: But five thousands years ago...
Prabhupada: That's all right. Otherwise how you are getting if it was given up? How you are getting now? It was not given up. Who says it was given up?
Devotee: Well, America was formed on a materialistic society.
Prabhupada: America may say, but if it was given up, then how you are getting now?
Brahmananda: Now Americans are taking it up.
Prabhupada: Yes. How it is given up?
Laksmi-narayana: They will say that it became dormant. Not that many people liked it anymore so...
Prabhupada: Not dormant. It is coming. It is coming. We have not lost it. It may be that a few people know it, but it is not lost. It is not that missing bone; it is not like that.
Morning Walk
July 11, 1975, Chicago"
And another quote by Srila Prabhupada:
"Prabhupada: It is not my movement; it is the Vedic culture. Don't think... If you say "my movement," I have manufactured something. Not. This is the Vedic culture.
Interviewer (4):No, from the standpoint of this culture…
Prabhupada: Standpoint is that I am trying to revive the Vedic culture, that's all. That is my business. I am not manufacturing anything."
Ref. VedaBase => Press Interview at Muthilal Rao's House -- August 17, 1976, Hyderabad
Dipankar Deb: Govinda Dasi mataji, a genuine question: have you read the book? That, in my humble opinion, is what we also should do first before a psycho-analysis is done on the author's persona or supposed confusion.
Hanuman Das: Yes, my "dearmost" Govinda Dasi, I also noticed that sometimes women go mad and in the same post, they call they their Godbrother "dearmost" and also they call him mad.
Sometimes women go so mad, that they ignore the fact that Srila Prabhupada in his works mentioned word chaste over 700 times, and word shy over 300 times in relation to women. Although he have over 1000 evidences on the contrary they still push free mixing agenda, that is what I call mad.
Also, those mad women propose strange ideas, one such idea is that Bhakti Vikasa Swami is against grhasta couples preaching together.
Also, such mad women have other crazy ideas, for example that politician promoting abortion is preacher and representative of Srila Prabhupada.
And also, because Bhakti Vikasa Swami is extensively quoting from Srila Prabhupada about women's roles, you dare to draw strange conclusion that he is not honoring women and that is better for him to honor "all devotees".
Then you say you "respect him very much" after you called him mad three paragraphs above that.
Your attempt to attack Bhakti Vikasa Swami is pathetic and not based on sastra. Everybody with IQ higher than 10 can understand your duplicitous behavior, where you insult and glorify person in schizophrenic manner.
Therefore, please don't engage Bhakti Vikasa Swami, he is philosophically way above your league.
Sudevi Dasi: Govinda Dasi you just gave us confirmation that M&M book is 100% in line with Srila Prabhupada, with these statements :
"Remember, it was Prabhupada who married us all, and then sent us as couples to London, to Hawaii, to Los Angeles, to Florida, etc. to open temples. Not brahmacharies. He knew what was needed for preaching--maybe we should just do as he did instead of making things up?"
This is exactly what HH Bhakti Vikasa Swami wrote in the book.
First of all Srila Prabhupada married you, and sent you TOGETHER to preach, and not women alone.
So, maybe we should just do as Srila Prabhupada did instead of making things up.
And maybe senior devotees could read the book before they comment it, because we (insignificant creatures enlivened by cause less mercy of Sri Krishna and His devotees ) are really fried up with your actions and words related to HH BVKS and M & M.
Visnucitta Dasa: Mother Govinda Dasi, it simultaneously amazing and disappointing to me that a senior disciple of His Divine Grace, makes allegations without a shred of evidence to support them.
>YEs, I like my dearmost God brother Bhakti Vikas Swami very
>much but it seems he has lost his good sense. We are not living in
>the Vedic age, this is Kali.
How can you call a person dear and mad at the same time? If he is actually dear to you, wouldn't it have been better to have approached him directly and not state on a public forum that he has gone crazy?
>It is absurd to endorse many of the ideas he is promoting, very
>sad. Sometimes men go mad due to too much austerity.
The book has:
130 quotes taken directly from Srila Prabhupada's books,
88 quotes from Prabhupada's lectures, conversations and letters,
50+ quotes from books by other SP disciples.
You seem to suggest that Prabhupada's ideas were absurd. Would it be too much to go a step further and suggest that Prabhupada went mad because he took so many austerities in Vrndavana & Delhi to print and sell BTG magazines?
>The most important thing is to preach as Prabhupada taught. He
>taught his daughters to work for Krishna and take on
>responsiblities as much as his sons--and he never had weird
>attitudes in dealing with them. Rather, he encouraged and
>protected us.
Exactly. Which is why he never made them GBCs. Which is why he wanted them to be protected by their husbands. Which is why he desired to set up a varnasrama social structure so that women and children would not be cheated by irresponsible men. It is weird that devotees find a book based on Prabhupada's quotes to be "weird." That also without reading it.
>These radical attitudes have developed due to immaturity and
>excessive austerity without the sukriti to support it.
Where does this idea of bhakti sukrti as prerequisite to performing austerity come from? Not Prabhupada. "By austerity, one becomes purified and eligible to return home, back to Godhead." (SB 5.10.23) This is of course, apart from the fact that you have not provided any evidence to show what kind of "excessive austerity" Maharaja is performing.
>Remember, it was Prabhupada who married us all, and then sent
>us as couples to London, to Hawaii, to Los Angeles, to Florida, etc.
>to open temples. Not brahmacharies. He knew what was needed
>for preaching--maybe we should just do as he did instead of
>making things up?
Right, so Prabhupada wanted his women disciples to stick with their husbands and spread the movement. How does a book that suggests ways and means to do that, based on Prabhupada's quotes, seem as if Maharaja is "making things up?"
>Now, we have Congresswoman Tulsi Gabbard preaching Krishna
>consciousness to thousands, and even giving Prabhupada's
>original Gita to the Prime Minister of India, and other big
>politicians. We have Wai Lana opening up the channels in China
>for thousands of people to become devotees. Shall we ignore
>these great women preachers?
This is highlight of your unsubstantiated attack on Maharaja. You call a godbrother who has been known for his steady service and dedication to the movement as mad and glorify women whose ideas are not even in line with Prabhupada. Tulsi Gabbard openly supports same-sex marriages and wants that all restrictions on abortions be lifted (http://www.ontheissues.org/House/Tulsi_Gabbard.htm).
Can you kindly show me how this makes her a "great woman preacher?" You call her great and your own godbrother mad. I'm sorry, but I find this to be very lamentable.
>Srila Prabhupada often said, "These are not ordinary women, dont
>treat them as such." Many souls were sent by his Guru Maharaj, to
>help him start this movement--some were sent in female bodies
>and some were sent in male bodies. We should see it like that.
Maharaja respects the women in our society and therefore took the pain to compile a book containing Prabhupada's instructions for them. He did this for their benefit so that both men and women read it and understand how Prabhupada actually cared for his daughters.
>I am so sorry that my dear God brother Bhakti Vikas Swami has
>somehow become confused in this way. Because I like him and
>respect him very much. Very tragic.
Let's face it Mataji. This book has too many quotes from Prabhupada for you to dismiss it as Maharaja's ideas or confusion. Either Maharaja has misquoted more than 200+ quotes of Prabhupada, or Prabhupada is confused and his instructions are tragic.
>It is better to honor all devotees, whether male or female, and
>encourage them to serve according to their natural propensity.
>That is what Srila Prabhupada did. That, in my humble opinion, is
>what we also should do.
In my humble opinion, you should read a book before you make statements about it or the author. If you are really concerned about Maharaja, please make an analysis of the book and refute it. If Maharaja is so wrong about Prabhupada, then it would be a great service for our society if you can speak with evidence and correct him, for he is dear to you and you like him very much.
Isn't it the duty of disciples to understand their spiritual master's mood and mission? I humble request you, respected mother, to set an example as a senior disciple of Prabhupada, take the lead and start a fruitful discussion for the benefit of our society. It is disappointing that all Maharaja has received so far, including the GBC resolution banning the book, have been just plain unsubstantiated allegations.
Revati Devi Dasi: Respected Govinda dasi, you are known as Heroine Govinda dasi, who defeated Mayavadis in Hawaii, so it is quite surprising that you are advocating feminism which is also Mayavada. You accuse BVKS Maharaja without any argument, it seems that you have just seen the cover and concluded that BVKS maharaja wants women out of preaching. You say that Maharaja is your dear friend, and yet you are offending him publicly. He invited all the devotees to send him their complaints about WMM book, it would be more respectful if you did so, instead of this.
Sundari Radhika Devi Dasi: Govinda Dasi, I would suggest you read reviews of "MM" book:
http://bvks.com/reader/wmm/reviews/
and here are reactions of some of your respected Godsisters and Godbrothers on "MM" book:
http://bvks.com/reader/wmm/reactions_to_the_ban/.
