Sri Krsna's Words on Leaving Vaikuntha
BY: BAHUSHIRA DASA (ACBSP)
May 11, 2010 — CALIFORNIA, USA (SUN) — Acaryavilasa
keeps mentioning my name, so I suppose he wants to hear some words from me, and then I can watch his fireworks. Acaryavilasa
always wants to get the last word in, so he can have that treasure. He wants to know why I haven't commented on the Brahma
Samhita, 5.11. verse. That is because I understand it as it reads. Thousands of souls are created by Mahavisnu. Or from the
other side of the debate, Mahavisnu creates bodies for the jivas from the last creation, like a mother "creates" a child.
Either way is fine.
I accept both views, on the matter of fall
and no fall: It depends on how you look at the issue. I am positively sure that Acaryavilasa can't accept both views of
fall/no fall. There are enough quotes to justify both approaches to the issue of the jiva and that is why the debate has gone
on for so long. Because both sides have quotes to minimize the other side's view. For example, "Every entity originally
nitya-siddha", or from the other side of the debate, "There is no fall from Vaikuntha planet". Because of both extremes there
will be no end to this debate. So my approach to the debate of the fall/no fall issue is that both sides have validity, and
with that understanding there is no reason to go on debating unlimitedly.
I've noticed that devotees of both sides of
the debate don't want to give any accommodation to Srila Rupa Goswami. We are supposed to be Rupanugas. Rupa Goswami has
given a verse that gives relevant instructions to any topic that appears controversial and how to deal with it. Here is the
verse from Kurma Purana quoted in Laghu Bhagavatamrta, Vol. 3, Verse 327, p. 10:
Virodho Vakyayor yatra napramanyam yad isyate
Yathariruddhata ca syat tatharthah kalpate tayoh iti
"When contradictions are found in the
Vedic scripture, it is not that one statement is wrong. Rather both statements should be seen in
such a way that there is no contradiction."
The problem with Neo-Gaudiyas is that they
can't accept the fact that tatastha jivas are everywhere. That means that in the material world there are tatastha jivas, in
Vaikuntha and Goloka and all the spiritual planets there are tatastha jivas. Neo-Gaudiyas think that tatastha jivas are only
in the Causal Ocean and the material universe. Bhaktivinoda Thakur and Jiva Goswami say that Garuda is a tatastha jiva. And
we all know Garuda lives in Vaikuntha. I've written two articles about that showing the proof, they are Tatastha Shakti Jivas are
Everywhere and Condescending Pride About Jiva Tatttva.
All the jivas that get liberated from the
material world are also residing in Vaikuntha and Goloka, and they are also tatastha jivas. Tatastha jivas are everywhere. In
my article I presented the evidence. But not a peep from Acaryavilasa about tatastha jivas being everywhere. He thinks they
are only in the Causal Ocean.
Tatastha jivas have the free will to fall
from anywhere, but 90% don't fall from the Vaikunthas. By taking a vote of hands, if 90% of the voters of an issue say no,
then the majority wins. That doesn't mean the other 10% has no value. Srila Prabhupada said twice that 90% don't fall from
Vaikuntha. From this view all the verses that say no fall have validity. The fall-vadis are talking about the 10% that do
fall. When the jiva goes back to Vaikuntha or Goloka, he is still a tatastha jiva. He didn't become something else. He is now
simply liberated in full perfection. God is God and jiva is jiva, tiny. Mamaivamso jiva loke, jiva bhutah sanatanah.
The word eternal, like in eternal relationship, means there is no beginning. That means the relationship doesn't start with a
beginning. It is just covered. The Neo-Gaudiyas cannot deal with this aspect of the philosophy. Nor did any of them reply to
Gokula das about his article, Bhakti-nyaya, which deals with this aspect of the debate.
I found some verses I want to share with the
devotees. Many devotees don't have access to the Hari Bhakti Vilasa so I will provide the Sanskrit here. Sri Hari
Bhakti Vilasa, fifteenth Vilasa, verses 283-288:
Text 283
atha janmastami-mahatmyam
(The glories of the Janamastami vrata)
bhavisyottare
sri-krsna-yudhisthira-samvade janmastami-vrata-kathane
(In a conversation between Krsna and King Yudhisthira regarding
Janamastami that is found in the Bhavisottara Purana it is stated)
ekena upavasena
krtena kuru nandana
sapta janma krtat papan
mucyate natra samsayah
O scion of the Kuru dynasty, there
is no doubt that by fasting on Janamastami, even once, one if freed from the reactions to all sinful
activities committed during his previous seven lifetimes.
Text 284
putra-santanam arogyam
saubhagyam atulam labhet
satya dharma rato bhutva
mrto vaikuntham apnuyat
By observing the vow of
Janamastami, one receives good children,
good health, and unlimited good fortune. One also becomes truly
righteous and ascends to Vaikuntha after death.
Text 285
tatra nityam vimanena
varsa laksam yudhisthira
bhogan nana vidhan bhuktva
punya sesad ihagatah
O Yudhisthira, while residing in
Vaikuntha, such a person will freely
travel in his airplane and enjoy transcendental happiness for millions of
years. Thereafter, when his piety becomes exhausted, he will return to this
material world.
Texts 286-288
sarva kama samrddhe tu
sarvasukha vivarjite
sarva dharma yute partha
sarva gokula sankule
tasmin rastre prabhur bhunkte
dirghayur manasepsitan
bhogan ante ca paramam
padam yatya punar bhavam
tat kule rupa vikhyata
jayante hrdayangamah
O Partha, after returning to this
world, he will enjoy all kinds of
prosperity, remain free from all miseries, become a follower of all religious
principles, possess seemingly limitless cows, and enjoy a long duration of
life. Thereafter, he will attain the supreme abode of the Lord and never again return to this world of birth and death. Many
handsome and magnanimous
souls will take birth in his family.
These verses are just like the verses from
Brahma-vaivarta Purana and Padma Purana. The same set of facts is expressed, that a jiva can go to Vaikuntha, and
stay for a long time and then return to this world. Bhogan nana vidhan bhuktva punya sesad ihagatah. Then the jiva
eventually goes back to Vaikuntha, and never takes birth again. Bhogan ante ca paramam padam yatya punar bhavam.
Acaryavilasa says he believes in the words of Krsna, so does he believe in these words, that were also compiled by a Goswami
named Sanatana, who saw it fit to put these verses in Hari Bhakti-Vilasa, which Srila Prabhupada talks so much about in
Caitanya-caritamrita? It sure gives one a pause for consideration.
Sanatana Goswami put these verses in Hari
Bhakti Vilasa so one could read them and learn from them, and not cause dissention. Acaryavilasa wants to talk about the
greatest authority in the creation, Lord Brahma. There are so many Brahmas, and the source of all Brahmas is Krsna. Krsna
also defeats all of the Brahmas when it comes to sastric dissertation. Sri Krsna's words can't go away. His words can't be
swept under the rug. His words are as plain as day. Sanatana Goswami also proclaims Sri Krsna's words have great importance
and he wants all jivas to hear these words. Sanatana Goswami knows the mood and inner essence of what Krsna's words mean. The
Neo-Gaudiyas can't stand to hear these words because many of them don't study enough. Acaryavilasa should notice that I don't
have to include brackets for words that aren't in the translation. There is no interpolation needed for these verses. They
stand on their own.
Acaryavilasa keeps repeating that ISCKON
says only jivas envious of Krsna can leave Vaikuntha and that this is the only possible way of leaving there, except for
preaching. But here in these verses and in Padma and Brahma-Vaivarta Purana it states that one can leave after a
period of time. Krsna says the jiva can leave there and He means it. Who would know better the results of observing
Krsna's appearance than Krsna Himself? As God, He knows what He's talking about. The wonderful results of strictly observing
His birthday is not exaggerated poetry of some munis. In these verses God is speaking Himself, therefore the statements are
supremely truthful and auspicious in the highest degree. With this understanding, it makes sense why Sanatana Goswami wrote
them in Hari-Bhakti-Vilasa.
Sanatana Goswami has included these verses
in Hari-Bhakti-Vilasa because he wanted us to think about what they mean. These verses are worded just like the quotes
from the Puranas and Mahabharata that were given by different devotees on this website. The same understanding is
there. If falling or leaving Vaikuntha is so apasiddhantic and atheistic as Acaryavilasa would say, then why does Sanatana
include them in Hari-Bhakti-Vilasa, and not just in one verse, but three verses? Krsna the Supreme Personality of
Godhead says you can leave Vaikuntha, but Acaryavilasa says there is so much oozing love there that you can't fall, leave,
etc. So whose words are we going to believe? In Caitanya-caritamrita, Madhya Lila, Ch. 24, verse 328, purport, Srila
Prabhupada says:
"Sanatana Goswami was a pure devotee of
the Lord, and through the blessings of Sri Caitanya Mahaprabhu he was able to write the book perfectly."
Janmasthami Vrata is being glorified in
these verses, just as following Janmasthami is glorified in Brahma-Vaivarta Purana. It makes sense that both Puranas
would be saying the same things because the verses were compiled by the same author, Vyasadeva. So the verses are not a
fluke, instead they reinforce each other in both Puranas. For Acaryavilasa's consideration there is no Goloka envy mentioned
in these verses, and these verses are not talking about the origin of the soul. They are talking about how a jiva can perform
Janmasthami, then go to Vaikuntha upon death, stay for many years and then leave Vaikuntha and come back to this
material world, and then go back to stay.
The different Puranas, Brahma-vaivarta
and Bhavisottara mention repeatedly this same scenario. Krsna says in these verses that one leaves Vaikuntha. If
someone thinks that Krsna's statements on these verses are exaggerated, and are only referring to mundane pious results,
which is material, and can't give a transcendental result, then he is mistaken. In these verses the word saubhagyam is
used and it means unlimited good fortune, which is beyond mundane piety. Krta punya punya - heaps of pious activities,
as Srila Prabhupada would say. To play with the cowherd boys and girls one has acquired heaps of pious activities. These are
not mundane pious activities. These verses are not referring to mundane pious acts. Mundane piety can't give you entrance
into a transcendental planet in the spiritual sky. Any service act that appears to be "pious" if performed in relation to the
Lord actually can give a spiritual result and can give one entrance to the Lord's abode. Otherwise Krsna is lying about
observing His birthday, which is not the case. It is not mundane piety being discussed here.
The information provided by the verses shows
that the jiva who goes from the material world to Vaikuntha under these circumstances mentioned in the verses, didn't
voluntarily want to leave Vaikuntha. The jivas mentioned are allowed to stay a certain amount of time in Vaikuntha and then
have to leave. In this instance freewill was not involved. This is another example of how one may leave Vaikuntha besides
misusing freewill. Srila Prabhupada says fall/no fall, like Bhakta Clive has correctly understood in his article, Fall or No Fall, like so many
other devotees have also understood. The previous acaryas say fall/no fall, and so does the master of all philosophy, Lord
Krsna.
Acaryavilasa seems to think that ISCKON is
saying that it is because of envy that one leaves Vaikuntha or Goloka. But here Krsna says in these verses that one who
observes Janmasthami actually leaves Vaikuntha after a certain period of time. Imagine all the personalities who have
strictly observed Janmasthami since time immemorial and got this wonderful result, that after coming back from Vaikuntha to
this world they then go back to Vaikuntha for good.
Not just Srila Prabhupada has said both
fall/no fall, but also Krsna, the Supreme Personality of Godhead, has said both fall and no fall. There is no mistake that
both views have been given by other acaryas as well. That's what I've been saying all along. Rupa Goswami was well aware of
such controversies. Leaving Vaikuntha after so many years, as Lord Krsna states, means that the jiva has no say, or freewill
about the situation mentioned here. Leaving Vaikuntha due to free will is a different circumstance. The rule as stated in
these verses is that the jiva just leaves Vaikuntha at the expiry of the arrangement. Then he comes back to the material
world and then goes back to Vaikuntha and does not return. Srila Prabhupada is backing up and confirms what Krsna has stated
in the Puranas: that one can leave Vaikuntha. The Neo-Gaudiyas whole point is that one can never leave Vaikuntha except for
preaching. Here, in these verses, Krsna says you can leave Vaikuntha. And Prabhupada confirms it in his lectures.
Vyasadeva , the literary incarnation of God,
keeps writing verses that follow the same format in the Puranas. That format is that a jiva from the material world performs
service which produces unlimited good fortune (saubhagya). They go to the Vaikuntha planets, stay for some time, come
back to the material world, and finally go back to Vaikuntha, never to return to the material world again. In
Caitanya-caritamrta, Madhya Lila, Ch. 22 Verse 45 it says:
"By good fortune, one
becomes eligible to cross the ocean of nescience,
and when one's term of material existence decreases, one may get an
opportunity to associate with pure devotees. By such association, one's
attraction to Krsna is awakened.
Purport: Bhaktivinode Thakura explains this
point. Is this bhagya (fortune)
the result of an accident or something else? In the scriptures devotional
service and pious activity are considered fortunate. Pious activities can be
divided into three categories-pious activities that awaken one's dormant
Krsna consciousness are called bhakty-unmukhi sukrti. Pious activities
that bestow material opulence are called Bhogonmukhi, and pious activities
that enable the living entity to merge into the existence of the Supreme are
called mokson mukhi."
One can see from the above quote that some
pious activities, i.e., those that are of the saubhagyham (great fortune) category, connected with devotional service, like
observing Janmasthami, Kartika, or Ekadasi, can give a transcendental result with a time limit. These are called
bhakty-unmukhi sukriti, because they are connected with Krsna and blessed by Him. In the verse it says one may get an
opportunity to associate with pure devotees. That means that the jiva gets an opportunity to associate with devotees not just
on this planet, but anywhere within this material universe, and up to and including all the Vaikuntha planets. Also the verse
states that one's attraction to Krsna is awakened. That awakening does not only refer to the beginning stages of bhakti, but
also the higher stages as well. The jiva performs some service and then goes for some time to Vaikuntha and then comes back,
as stated in Brahma-vaivarta Purana, Padma Purana, and Bhavisottara Puranas.
Acaryavilasa's interpolation of his two
favorite quotes from the Upanisads has already been dealt with in my article, The Fifth Veda and Unanswered
Questions, Part 1. My comments are too long to post here.
The Prabhupada quote from Krsna Book
about the jiva seeing Krsna for the first time has to be seen in context. I know devotees that have "seen" Krsna in dreams.
Is that then the "first" time for them seeing Krsna? Does that mean that all the devotees who "see" Krsna for the first time
in that universe to which they go, have never seen Krsna in any of their meditations up to that point? It does not follow,
because surely they have seen Krsna before. So the way I have understood "first meeting Krsna" is that it refers to when the
jiva takes birth in that particular universe, which is a different universe than the previous one that he appeared in, and
then sees Krsna in the universe he is now in.
Acaryavilasa has admitted that Srila
Prabhupada said the jiva fell from Vaikuntha. Acaryavilasa was saying in a previous article that Vaikuntha can mean the
Causal Ocean. I stated that Vaikuntha means Vaikuntha Planets and the jiva can fall from there as well. In a Los Angeles
lecture on Bhagavatam, 2.3.19, 6-15-72, Srila Prabhupada said:
"He is fallen already from Vaikuntha
Planet. He is fallen in this material world, and he is again trying to make progress."
Then two weeks later in a Los Angeles
lecture on Srimad Bhagavatam, on 7-3-72 Srila Prabhupada again says:
"He is already fallen from Vaikuntha
Planet, he is fallen in this material world. And he is again trying to make progress."
While still in L.A., in a Bhagavatam lecture
on May 20, 1972, Srila Prabhupada emphasizes:
"They're fallen because they wanted to
gratify their senses. They cannot remain in Vaikuntha World. In the Vaikuntha World, only the one, the Supreme Lord, His
senses should be satisfied not anyone elses. That is called bhakti."
In a letter to Upendra dasa, October 27,
1969, Srila Prabhupada wrote:
"Constitutionally every living entity,
even if he is Vaikunthaloka, has the chance of falling down. Therefore the living entity is called marginal energy."
So Acaryavilasa will have to argue with
Krsna as to why He would say such words about leaving Vaikuntha. He will also have to confront Sanatana Goswami as to why he
would publish such words about leaving Vaikuntha as well, in Hari-Bhakti-Vilasa.
Bahushira Dasa (ACBSP)
