Srila Prabhupada's First Fallen Sannyasi
BY: GIRI-NAYAK DASA (BVS)
Mar 24, SLOVENIA (SUN) — Excerpts from a Pamho forum discussion.
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Comment 3199 (72 lines)
From: Giri-nayaka (das) BVS (SLO)
Date: 24-Mar-08 11:43 (12:43 +0100)
To: Bhakti Vikasa Swami
To: "achintya"
To: Ganga (dd) IDS (CIS SysOp)
To: "Madhavi dd/Mehta"
To: BVKS Sanga
To: (ISKCON) Lipa Dalmacija
To: Prabhupada Said
To: Quotes
For: (Krsna) Katha
To: AC Bhaktivaibhava Swami
To: Bir Krishna das Goswami
Reference: Text PAMHO:15209220 by Bhakti Vikasa Swami
Subject: Srila Prabhupada's first fallen sannyasi
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"One of Prabhupada's sannyasi disciples, Hanuman, had fallen down from the sannyasa standard and had married. Such a thing had never before happened in ISKCON."
Dear Bhakti Vikasa Maharaja. (Also bowing down in front of my Guru and my GBC) Please accept my humble obeisances. All glories to Srila Prabhupada. Thank you for this wonderful recollection (full quote at bottom of this text) of SDG [Satsvarupa das Goswami], regarding the occasion of first ISKCON sannyasi falling. I have a question, can you please help me with understanding this.
Why didn't Srila Prabhupada at that point implement status of "retired-sannyasi", for one such sannyasi, who was (by words of SDG), so dear to him, that he felt eternally indebted to this devotee?
I'm asking this, because we have seen recently, that "GBC Society of West Bengal" implemented status of "retired-sannyasi" within their GBC Church, along with implementation of status "retired-guru", as addition to their
customary social and ecclesiastical conventions, as an act of compassion and loyalty towards one of senior members of their ecclesiastical order, who after several months of negotiations refused to change his dress to white, and refused to give up the honorific title of GBC-institutional-Guru within GBC Church.
Is the reason, that Srila Prabhupada didn't implement the status of "retired-sannyasi" for his dearmost disciple Hanuman, coming from fact that Hanuman already dressed himself in white, and thus voluntarily gave up his sannyasa position?
Or is it that Srila Prabhupada intended to do this in the future, but there was no proper occasion for that, so he left the glory for this bold step to be taken by his successors, and now GBC of West Bengal, (who are, by their own words, the only ones who really understand what Srila Prabhupada wanted), finally implemented this, to the glory of entire Vaisnava sampradaya?
Thank you for your answer.
your servant Giri-nayaka das
PS. I'm adding as receivers to this text also two official GBC authorities, namely my diksa-guru Bhaktivaibhava Swami, and my local GBC Bir Krsna Goswami. I'm hoping, that they will respond to this question, and present
their personal views, or the views as them being official representatives of GBC Church. I'm sure that also all other devotees will be interested in response from hereby approached high ranking officials within GBC Church. Thank you for your extensive and prompt replies.
"One of Prabhupada's sannyasi disciples, Hanuman, had fallen down from the sannyasa standard and had married. Such a thing had never before happened in ISKCON. But now, on Prabhupada's first day in Mexico, Hanuman, dressed as a householder, came to see his spiritual master.
After the crowd of guests had left Prabhupada's room, only Hanuman and a few senior men remained. "Srila Prabhupada," Hanuman began, "Lord Caitanya Mahaprabhu had one disciple in the renounced order, Chota Haridasa, whom He rejected from His association because he became too much lusty after a woman. I was also one of your sannyasa disciples, and I too became lusty after a woman. I was wondering if you have also rejected me from your association."
A heavy silence followed as everyone looked at Prabhupada, who sat with his head down. After a long pause, Prabhupada looked up at Hanuman and said quietly, "Lord Caitanya is God. He can spread this movement all over the world in one second without the help of anyone if He likes. I am not God. I am simply a servant of God. I require so much assistance to help me spread Krsna consciousness all over the world. If someone renders even some small service to help me, I am eternally indebted to him. You have rendered so much assistance to me, how could I reject you?"
(from Srila Prabhupada lila by SDG)"
(Text 3199) ------------------------------------------------
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Comment 3203 (127 lines)
From: Giri-nayaka (das) BVS (SLO)
Date: 24-Mar-08 18:39 (19:39 +0100)
To: Jahnu (Dvipa das JPS) (Mayapur - IN)
To: AC Bhaktivaibhava Swami
To: Bir Krishna das Goswami
To: "achintya"
To: BVKS Sanga Mail
To: Citra (dd) SKS (Tallinn - EE)
To: Ganga (dd) IDS (CIS SysOp)
To: "Madhavi dd/Mehta"
To: Radhe Govinda (dasa) ISM (Split - HR)
To: Prabhupada Said
For: BVKS Sanga
For: (Krsna) Katha
For: (ISKCON) Lipa Dalmacija
For: Quotes
Reference: Text PAMHO:15212188 by Jahnu (Dvipa das JPS) (Mayapur - IN)
Subject: Srila Prabhupada's first fallen sannyasi
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Dear Jahnu Dvipa Prabhu.
Please accept my humble obeisances. All glories to Srila Prabhupada.
"I mean, 'GBC Society of West Bengal' and 'their GBC church' where the hell do you get these terms from, and what do they mean? And who is 'we', anyway? Please don't tell me you are so incredibly puffed up and deluded as to speak of yourself as 'we'."
You are not doing a favour to your GBC Society by asking these questions. You don't know what you are saying, but the GBCs know exactly. So be it, I will put it out, for all to see.
Let me explain:
1. GBC Society of West Bengal:
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This is official name of your GBC, it is registered society, and you are not
aware of it, clearly. You can see their letter head, or their resolutions.
(example) They don't present themselves as GBC, but as GBC Society, registered in West Bengal, under the West Bengal Societies Registration Act, 1961. GBC Society letterhead says:
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ISKCON GOVERNING BODY COMMISSION SOCIETY
Reg. No S/74662 under the West Bengal Societies Registration Act, 1961 P.O.
Shree Mayapur Dham, Dist. Nadia, W. Bengal
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It is society, just as ISKCON is society. But it is not ISKCON
(international society), it is ISKCON GBC Society, of West Bengal.
Afaik, In 1993, the ISKCON GBC Society was formed in West Bengal, India, by
some ex-members of the GBC of ISKCON. Surprisingly they claimed to be the
GBC of ISKCON, and from then until now, practically no one has questioned
their authority to do so. This Society is not governed by the rules made by
Srila Prabhupada for his GBC, nor are they accountable to the Temple
Presidents of ISKCON by re-election as designed by Srila Prabhupada. And
they invent things.
2. GBC Church:
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Since several years, GBC Society started to implement systems, which they
call ecclesiastical, and they call themselves as ecclesiastical managing
authority. Any dictionary reference to word ecclesiastical is connected to
word church. From Webster:
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Ecclesiastical \Ec*cle`si*as"tic*al\, a. [See Ecclesiastical, a.] Of or
pertaining to the church; relating to the organization or government of the
church; not secular; as, ecclesiastical affairs or history; ecclesiastical
courts.
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Ecclesiastical courts, courts for maintaining the discipline of the
Established Church; -- called also Christian courts. [Eng.]
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Ecclesiastical law, a combination of civil and canon law as administered in
ecclesiastical courts. [Eng.]
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Ecclesiastical modes (Mus.), the church modes, or the scales anciently used.
----------
Ecclesiastical States, the territory formerly subject to the Pope of Rome as
its temporal ruler; -- called also States of the Church.
----------
Ecclesiastical is a word, used exclusively in connection to church.
Clearly GBC Society is not christian church, thats why they are called GBC
Church, legally registered as GBC Society of West Bengal.
You didn't know this, ha? Well, I bet GBCs reading this knew it just fine. I
wonder what they will say now, how will they explain their fancy managment
speculations, especially after Srila Prabhupada said:
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....not that we should become too much absorbed in fancy organization. Our
business is spiritual life, so whatever organization needs to be done, the
Presidents may handle and take advice and assistance from their GBC
representative.
>>> Ref. VedaBase => Letter to: All Temple Presidents -- Tokyo 22 April,
>>> 1972
=================
Please note the line "the Presidents may handle and take advice and
assistance from their GBC representative".
No fancy (church) organization, TPs can handle it, with advice from GBCs,
who were supposed to be voted from among TPs too (as per Srila Prabhupada's
personally signed ISKCON legal documents - see Vedabase), clearly, because
only experienced TPs in GBC can give advice to small TPs. What do sannyasis
know of these things, they are like kids, they immediately fall for every
Braja Bihari's corporate nonsense, like polarity management and similar,
that promises instant advancement of resources (human, financial) and
eventual prosperity.
3. I don't speak of myself as "we". I said "....we have seen recently, that
"GBC Society of West Bengal" implemented ...." With this I mean, the WE have
seen, you and me, everybody, all of us, thousands of devotees. Is seems you
didn't see anything, but everybody else is seenig, that GBC Society of West
Bengal started to move its own way, apart from directions given by Srila
Prabhupada.
Don't be so foolishly faithful, take a step back, and see for yourself.
your servant Giri-nayaka das
"I'm asking this, because we have seen recently, that "GBC Society of West Bengal" implemented status of "retired-sannyasi" within their GBC Church, along with implementation of status "retired-guru", as addition to their customary social and ecclesiastical conventions, as an act of compassion and loyalty towards one of senior members of their ecclesiastical order, who after several months of negotiations refused to change his dress to white, and refused to give up the honorific title of GBC-institutional-Guru within GBC Church.
Imagine how much more happy and satisfied you would be if instead of writing braindead trash as the above on the internet you would spend your time actually serving guru and Krishna. I mean, 'GBC Society of West Bengal' and 'their GBC church' where the hell do you get these terms from, and what do they mean? And who is 'we', anyway? Please don't tell me you are so incredibly puffed up and deluded as to speak of yourself as 'we'.
I think a far greater problem in ISKCON than the GBC Society of West Bengal and their GBC church is that people like you have internet connections.
ys, jdd
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