Jun 02, 2017 — CANADA (SUN) — Conversations wtih HDG A.C. Bhaktivedanta Swami Prabhupada, excerpted from Dialectical Spiritualism: A Vedic View of Western Philosophy.
VIII. EVOLUTIONARY NATURALISM
Henri Bergson (1859-1941)
Hayagriva dasa: Bergson maintained that God's reality can be intuited only by mystical experience. The creative effort "is of God if it is not God Himself." This knowledge of God leads to activity, not passivity.
Srila Prabhupada: Yes, knowledge of God certainly leads to activity. For instance, in bhakti-yoga we are engaged twenty-four hours daily in Krsna's service. It is not that we just sit down and meditate. In Bhagavad-gita, Krsna says that the best activity is to preach the message of Bhagavad-gita:
ya idam paramam guhyam
mad-bhaktesv abhidhasyati
bhaktim mayi param krtva
mam evaisyaty asamsayah
"For one who explains the supreme secret to the devotees, devotional
service is guaranteed, and at the end he will come back to Me." (Bg.
18.68) This is also Caitanya Mahaprabhu's order: "Become a guru by
spreading Krsna consciousness." To be a guru means to be active.
Hayagriva dasa: The word "mystic" can have many different meanings. When Bergson says that God's reality can be intuited only by mystical
experience, what is meant?
Srila Prabhupada: God is mystical for one who does not know God,
but for one who knows God and receives orders from Him, God is a
perceivable person. The word "mystic" may imply something vague or
obscure.
Syamasundara dasa: Bergson believed that the mystic who has contact
with God can lead others and teach them to become godly.
Srila Prabhupada: That is very nice. Then by "mystic," he means
God's representative. That is the spiritual master who is following in
the disciplic succession. The Bhagavad-gita tells us to approach a guru
who has realized the truth, God. It is not that the mystic poses himself
to be God. No, he surrenders unto Krsna and teaches others to do so.
In this way, he teaches us how to become godly. Actually, it is better
to say God conscious instead of godly. One who is God conscious is a
true mystic.
Syamasundara dasa: According to modem interpretations, a mystic is
someone mysterious or magical.
Srila Prabhupada: Yes, the meaning has degraded to that because so
many gurus come over, display miracles, and claim to be God. So these
rascals are misleading the unintelligent who want to see miracles, and
the unintelligent look on these miracles as mysticism. It is another case
of the cheaters and the cheated.
Hayagriva dasa: Originally, the Greek word mystikos referred to one
initiated in secret religious rites, and today the word has degenerated
to mean something obscure or occult. For Bergson, a mystic is one who
can commune with God through contemplation and love, participate in
God's love for mankind, and aid the divine purpose. This is the real
meaning of "creative evolution."
Srila Prabhupada: Yes, everyone is in ignorance due to a long separation from God. In the material world, the living entity has forgotten his
relationship with God; therefore he acts only for sense gratification. He
awakens to his real life when he is given instructions on how to become
God conscious; otherwise, he lives like an animal. Sentiment is one
thing, but when religion is understood in the light of good logic and
philosophy, we can attain a perfect understanding of God. Without
philosophy, religion is simply sentiment. Sentiment in itself does not
help very much. A sentimentalist may be interested one day and disinterested another. As stated in Srimad-Bhagavatam, religion means
learning how to love God. At the present moment, in our physical condition, we cannot see God, but by hearing about Him, we can
develop our dormant love.
Syamasundara dasa: Bergson envisioned two types of religion: static
and dynamic. Static religion is comprised of myths devised by human
intelligence as a means of defense against life's miseries. Fearful of
the future, man attempts to overcome his condition by constructing
religious myths.
Srila Prabhupada: Whatever is created by human beings is not accept able. We do not follow such faiths because human beings are always
imperfect. We cannot accept anything manufactured by human beings;
we must take our information directly from God, as it is given in
Srimad-Bhagavatam, Bhagavad-gita and other scriptures. Dharmam
tu saksad bhagavat-pranitam. "Real religious principles are enacted
by the Supreme Personality of Godhead." (Bhag. 6.3.19) Krsna says,
"Surrender unto Me." This is real religion. It is not man-made. Man
is constantly creating so many ism's, but these are not perfect. Religion
that leads us to surrender to God is real religion. Otherwise it is bogus.
Syamasundara dasa: For Bergson, real religion is dynamic.
Srila Prabhupada: Yes, that is so. It is not static because it is on the
spiritual platform. The spirit is the dynamic force in this body. There
is no question of the spirit being static.
Syamasundara dasa: Bergson says that prompted by the vital impulse,
by dynamic religion, the human will identifies with the divine will in
a mystical union.
Srila Prabhupada: Yes, that is the process of Krsna consciousness.
We are teaching people to agree with the divine will, which means
surrendering to God. Oneness means agreeing with this teaching.
Syamasundara dasa: Real religion is a mystic oneness with God.
Srila Prabhupada: Yes, oneness means that I agree with God. God
says, "Surrender," and I say, "Yes, I surrender." God tells Arjuna,
"Fight," and Arjuna fights. Oneness means that we agree with God on
all points.
Hayagriva dasa: Bergson felt that the greatest obstacle to creative
evolution is the struggle with materialism. He believed that politics and
economic reforms cannot help matters.
Srila Prabhupada: Politics and economic reforms can help provided
they are properly guided — that is, provided they aim at helping our
understanding of our relationship with God. Vedic civilization was di vided into four varnas and four asramas, and these divisions were meant
to help people develop their dormant God consciousness. Unfortunately, today the ksatriyas, the administrators, have forgotten the real objective
of human life. Now they are thinking only of caring for the body, living
comfortably, and gratifying their senses. But that is not the real purpose
of human civilization.
Bhaktivedanta Book Trust
