BY: ROCANA DASA
Sep 27, CANADA (SUN) — Studying Srila Prabhupada's conversations with ISKCON leaders.
Today's Talks is inspired by Srila Prabhupada's Morning Walk of July 1, 1975 in Denver. You can listen to the audio or read the transcript for this conversation here. [Please note the transcript does not include the beginning of the conversation.]
There are so many interesting subjects under discussion on this morning walk it would be difficult to cover them all. Many philosophical points came and went over the course of the conversation between Srila Prabhupada and his senior disciples, who included Tamal Krishna Goswami, Brahmananda dasa, Visnujnana Swami, Harikesa, Sudama dasa, Yadubar dasa, and Satsvarupa. This morning walk occurred during the heyday of Tamal Krishna Goswami's Radha Damodar traveling bus Sankirtana party, with which Visnujnana and Sudama were also engaged.
The walk begins with Brahmananda filling Srila Prabhupada in on something he’d read in the news about Nixon. Srila Prabhupada made a few comments and brought up the topic of Indira Gandhi, who was in the news at that time. She’d had a big crackdown and there was a lot of tension between she and Jayaprakash Narayan.
What I found interesting was that Tamal Krishna Goswami injected a comment on his feelings about Indira Gandhi, which were far from flattering. He said she rejected Hindu culture and was inclined to favour the Muslims over the Hindus. Interestingly, Srila Prabhupada said no, she has guru, and she’s going to Anandamayi Ma. At that point Brahmananda takes the opposite tact and starts saying how nice this guru is, and how they recommended that we were a good movement and spoke favorably about us and chanting Hare Krsna. Srila Prabhupada said he wanted to write some letters to them, and wanted them to read Bhagavad-gita. Ignoring the difference of opinion between Tamal Krishna and Brahmananda, he asked the devotees to look at some letters he’d already written to them.
As he typically did in political conversations, Srila Prabhupada came up with the positive spin, pointing out that this was a preaching opportunity. Being able to contact Indira Gandhi and use the political circumstance for preaching, he pressed his desire to get the leaders to read and accept some of the principles of his Bhagavad-gita.
Then the topic changed when Tamal Krishna Goswami wanted to tell Srila Prabhupada how wonderful his program was and where all the different buses were. Srila Prabhupada was more interested in knowing how book distribution was going -- how many books and BTG’s they were actually distributing. To him, this was proof of the success of the party. Of course, for those who were out on the parties or had an opportunity to interact with them, it wasn't such a rosy picture as the one Tamal Krishna Goswami painted, which was that every devotee on the bus was actually distributing books. But that’s another story.
Srila Prabhupada then began talking about the parents of the devotees accusing him of converting their children over to Krsna Consciousness and depriving them of material enjoyments. He said the caste brahmans in India were also accusing him of initiating mlecchas and yavanas. So all these people are accusing him. He recites the story of how Narada Muni got in trouble in the same way from Prajapati Daksi for converting sons. There’s some reminiscing about different parents Srila Prabhupada had met and how he always treated them very nicely. For example, he'd had flattering things to say about Nitai’s mother and grandmother, who he’d previously met.
Srila Prabhupada went back to the story of Daksa accusing Narada Muni, and explained that there are three kinds of debts you have when you’re born. This was Daksa’s argument to Narada. You have to satisfy these debts before you can go to the next stage. Srila Prabhupada outlines who the debts are to: the saintly sages, the demigods, the father, and the guru. But Srila Prabhupada quotes Srimad Bhagavatam 11:5:41, where it’s stated that “if anyone has surrendered to Krsna, he is no more debtor to anyone. He is immune from all obligation. His only obligation is to Krsna."
An interesting discussion then transpired wherein the devotees are asking Srila Prabhupada about the prajapatis, in reference to Daksa, and Srila Prabhupada basically says they’re not ordinary people but they’re not liberated because they still want material enjoyment. Tamal Krishna says "Still, they're entrusted with very big posts." Then Satsvarupa brings up that Lord Brahma is a prajapati, meaning a progenitor of mankind. And Srila Prabhupada says yes, he’s the chief prajapati. Satsvarupa asks if he's a pure devotee, and Srila Prabhupada says "No." Srila Prabhupada explains that the gopis and Radharani are even more exalted devotees than Lord Brahma.
Srila Prabhupada actually clarified this philosophical point when he emphasized that even though he was being accused by the parents, he was following in the footsteps of Narada Muni. Even though the patents may be nice, he had to cause them distress by convincing us to give up what they wanted us to do, so as to serve him. By doing so, we were resolved of our debts to our parents. But this is true only under the circumstances of serving the pure devotee (the bonafide guru) in the execution of his lila. That is what actually made the devotees "immune from all obligation".
Now we come to an interesting section of dialogue where Srila Prabhupada notices that Harikesa has been coughing, and asks him “Not taking any medicine?" Harikesa says "No", and Srila Prabhupada said "This continuing is not good.” Harikesa says he’s only eating fruits, which launches the morning walk party into a whole fascinating discussion on food.
Tamal Krishna Goswami obviously has problems with some of his people about the diets they’re on, and their thinking the prasadam is not suited to them. Srila Prabhupada asks a few qualifying questions before just going along. While Tamal Krishna doesn't mention any names, he's likely referring to Revatinandana Swami, who is mentioned later in the conversation.
Tamal indicates that this devotee has been reading all sorts of books on diet and fasting. Again, Srila Prabhupada doesn’t take the bait, but mentions that fasting is good, and explains how we should be like Raghunatha das Goswami. Srila Prabhupada often said that eating a little bit of food is better than eating too much, and we should have just enough to energize the body, without overeating.
After Srila Prabhupada brings up Raghunatha das Goswami, Tamal Krishna says “One of the important things about taking prasadam is that all the devotees sit together." This is a fascinating comment, given the fact that it was common practice amongst the senior men like Tamal Krishna and the GBC that they would not eat with the devotees. They nearly always had special prasadam and ate separately from the rank and file devotees, because what they were served was so much better than what the devotees had. They usually ate in a special room and you had to have a special invitation to join them. If there were no other sannyasis present, they ate alone. Later on, Tamal Krishna became notorious for being very finicky about what he ate, when he ate it, and how well it was cooked.
Later in the conversation we hear from another notoriously exclusive person in terms of eating, Bhavananda. He made the same comments to Srila Prabhupada as Tamal had, saying "During Mayapur festival, Srila Prabhupada, nicest thing was when we all sat down together and took prasadam."
As those who attended the Mayapur festivals during that period know, this was not at all the scenario. The GBC's and their specially hand-picked friends would take prasadam on the 2nd floor of the main temple building. They were served far more opulent prasadam than anybody else got. Even the Temple Presidents weren't served as nicely, and although we had gotten used to having nice prasadam back in America or Europe, when in Mayapur, we were relegated to queuing up with leaf plates for dal, rice and chapattis, without the opulent sabjis and special sweets. The Temple Presidents were always trying to get the GBC to invite them to the "sannyasis club" for special prasadam. On this morning walk conversation, Bhavananda is giving Srila Prabhupada the opposite impression. Back in those days, I never saw Bhavananda eat with the devotees.
The contentious discussion about food continues as those in attendance seem to be nudging Srila Prabhupada towards making a statement they can use back home to keep everyone in line. This is not successful, as Srila Prabhupada continues to make very practical replies.
Bhavananda goes overboard, as usual, and starts talking about how the devotees are spoiled about what they'll eat, while the people in India are starving for lack of rice. I can assure you, the sannyasis were not dying from a lack of rice back then. As I've mentioned before, when I was living in Mayapur in 1972, they were serving us 10th class rice that turned into a gray jelly-like mass, while the big leaders were upstairs eating first class Raj Bhoga, basmati rice with ghee, eating like kings while we ate like peasants on the street. Here Bhavananda is trying to convince Srila Prabhupada that the devotees are so spoiled because they demand such nice prasadam. This is laughable, at best.
Yadubar mentions that even in some of the health books they say cow’s milk is not good for you. Tamal Krishna adds his punch line, "That's the best thing. Let us die eating prasadam". Sudama then makes an interesting comment, saying "in the beginning, Srila Prabhupada, you encouraged us, all of us, to take much prasadam, to our full satisfaction." Yadubar says "I'm a good example that these diets are not very good." There's laughter, because Yadubar is skinny as a rail. Brahmananda, who was far from skinny, chimed in with a "Me too", to which Srila Prabhupada said, "The diets are not good or you are not good?", all of which brought much laughter.
One of the Denver devotees on the walk asked Srila Prabhupada about the business that he was running, which involved manufacturing jewelry and t-shirts. He wanted to know from Srila Prabhupada whether the non-devotees engaged in the production and those items were getting any spiritual benefit from participating. Interestingly, Srila Prabhupada asks how much profit are you giving to the temple? That’s how much benefit they get - it's proportionate to how much the proprietor is actually sacrificing for Krsna. "Provided you engage them for Krsna's service. Otherwise the laksmi will kill you." He also brings up the example of Sita being captured by Ravana.
Tamal Krishna Goswami then tries to get Srila Prabhupada to support the idea that householders should be preaching, not working. (This was Tamal's position at this point in time, but he later changed his mind.) Srila Prabhupada said householders can do deity worship and earn money. Tamal was trying to get the point across that if the householders would just earn money by “preaching”, everything would work best. As those who knew the circumstances back then recognize, this meant he was interested in getting support for putting the householders out on the streets raising money, which was done not just by selling books, I can assure you. Tamal was against these outside businesses, like the jewelry business run by the Denver devotees, and preferred to have everything controlled from the center, like the Radha Damodar party.
After an apparent break to get into the car after the walk, Srila Prabhupada returns to the subject of prasadam. He says, "Dieting, the best thing is to take prasadam." Tamal chimes in with “Definitely, clear cut.” Interestingly, Srila Prabhupada gets into a whole dialogue on the fact that devotees prasadam shouldn’t be too spicy, and you shouldn’t use any spices that come already ground -- no powdered, all whole spices and grind them ourselves because we’ll just get totally cheated and it’s not good for us.
Harikesa then states that the Radha Damodar party has great prasadam, and mentions the halva, which is well known to be huge mounds of halva fed to the devotees every morning. While it's obviously tasty, everyone knows it's not very healthy, by a long shot. In fact, it's a bit like intoxication because it’s so full of butter and sugar. After a bit more exchange on prasadam, Srila Prabhupada brings up the point that in Colorado, the main business is cow slaughter. This is a topic he often focuses on, and not surprisingly in Denver, which is a one of America's "cow capitals".
Tamal Krishna gets in as much propaganda for his Radha Damodar program as he can before the conversation comes to a close. At every opportunity he tells the great things he’s up to with the Radha Damodar. We should keep in mind that this is July 1975. By the next Mayapur meeting, Srila Prabhupada has disbanded this Radha Damodar party due to all the negative feedback Tamal Krishna was getting from the Temple Presidents. Srila Prabhupada sent Tamal Krishna Goswami to China for causing all the controversy, which was surrounding the fact that the bus party was raiding temples of its devotee staff. When the bus arrived at a temple, Tamal Krishna and his associates put great effort into pirating as many of the local brahmacaries as they could, encouraging them to leave the temple and join the traveling bus program. They were known to be very uncooperative with the local temple authorities, tending to just take over the brahmacaries, convincing them to jump ship and come with them, leaving in the middle of the night without asking the authorities for permission. Of course, this went over very badly with the temple communities, who needed the manpower and had trained the brahmacaries to serve the local yatra.
Simultaneously, Tamal Krishna and party were always putting down the householders, who were mainly the Temple Presidents. So even though the Radha Damodar party was doing quite nicely in terms of books scores, because they caused so much controversy with the local temples, Srila Prabhupada disbanded them. Shortly after this Visnujnana disappeared. As the story goes, he jumped into the Ganges and committed spiritual suicide, although personally I don’t believe that story. There’s no proof that it actually happened. What is known is that the Radha Damodar party was originally his party and his much-loved service, and Tamal Krishna basically took it over without consent, relegating Visnujnana to deity worship instead of being the spiritual focus of the party, as he had always been before. Under Visnujnana's direction, the party had been primarily going to colleges and putting on a simple program of preaching, book distribution and prasadam. When Tamal Krishna took it over, it became all business, making money and distributing books.
The morning walk conversation closed with Srila Prabhupada suggesting that he join the Radha Damodar party: "So why not one week with them? I am prepared." To my knowledge, Srila Prabhupada never took the opportunity to join the party's travels before disbanding them the following year.
