First Conversation With Srila Sridhara Maharaja
BY: SUN EDITORS
Nov 18, 2017 — CANADA (SUN) —
Having just completed our nine-part presentation of the transcript of the devotees' second meeting with Sridhara Maharaja, on August 19, 1980, we will now present the first conversation, which took place the day before. It was not our intention to present them in reverse order; we discovered in our archives the transcript for the first conversation only after we had begun presenting the second one.
Like the second conversation, we do not find a copy of the first conversation with Srila Sridhara anywhere online. It is mentioned in chapter 5 of Our Affectionate Guardians, although the text included in that book does not match what appears to be the original transcript, presented here. That section will be included in our next segment, and we will add the book version for comparison.
The reader will note the importance of this first conversation, not only as it relates to the Zonal Acarya era, but also to the genesis of Ritvik-vada. Like other papers presented in this series on the Zonal Acarya System, it is easy to understand why the Ritviks have not proliferated copies of this transcript online, although it has surely been in their possession. Our copy was received from Yasodanandana dasa some years ago.
Here then is Part One of the first conversation.
First Conversation with Sridhara Maharaja
August 18th, 1980 – Nabadweep, India
DKS: Recently one of the eleven initiating spiritual masters in ISKCON, Ramesvara Swami, he has made some changes in the temples in his zone, based upon certain understandings that he has reached by reading Srila Prabhupada's books, on the subject matter of guru so a… he has prepared a 50 page report substantiating the moves which he has done.
SM: Bengali regarding DKS English intonation
BCS: Maharaja is asking like he cannot understand everything so if I say… it will be easier.
SM: Bengali re R. Swami
BCS: Ramesvara Maharaja, he made some changes in the temple regarding the worship of guru. That is in the temples there were vyasasanas for the gurus and now he removed his vyasasana from the temple, and this is due to some realization he got from reading Srila Prabhupada's books. How a guru should accept worship and how a guru should behave.
Bengali:
SM: There are asanas in the temples?
BCS: Yes, there are asanas in the altar where the guru parampara is there. But in the temple there are vyasasanas for the gurus.
SM: Does it mean that there are asanas for gurus and param-gurus every one?
BCS: Previously there was only Srila Prabhupada's vyasasana. Now, besides Prabhupada's asana there are at least two asanas, one for the zonal guru and the other one for the visiting guru.
SM: For the resident guru and the other one is for the visiting guru. That means that there are three asanas.
BCS: In Los Angeles there were eleven other asanas for the eleven acaryas so that when all the eleven gurus come they can sit there. But Ramesvara Maharaja felt that this practice is minimizing Prabhupada's position. That's why he removed his own asana and other asanas as well. Now only Srila Prabhupada's asana is there. And previously the guru puja used to take place simultaneously, that is Srila Prabhupada's guru puja and the present gurus' puja used to take place together. But Ramesvara Maharaja has stopped his guru puja and only Prabhupada's guru puja is taking place in the temple.
SM: Then what about the guru puja of your Prabhupada's gurudeva, our Prabhupada, and Bhaktivinoda Thakur?
BCS: That guru puja is taking place through Srila Prabhupada's guru puja. Their asanas and pictures are there in the altar.
Bengali ( )
SM: So this guru puja is taking place separately.
BCS: I think in Gaudiya Math this practice was not prevalent.
SM: No, we used to have just pictures in the altar.
SM: So this is one question?
BCS: No, the question is coming.
SM: (Pointing to Dhira Krsna Maharaja) Whose disciple is he?
BCS: He is Srila Prabhupada's disciple.
Then there is a question by Dhira Krsna Swami which has been translated by Bhakti Car Swami.
English:
DKS: So you explained what he did. I'll just get to the basic questions first, and the details…
SM: Bengali with BCS
DKS: These changes… the details of the changes we can discuss later. This has brought a question about the whole position of the spiritual master. Different questions have arisen.
BCS: Bengali
DKS: Now, when we read…
Bengali:
SM: In whose zone does Dhira Krsna Maharaja stay?
BCS: He works under Ramesvara Maharaja in his zone in Los Angeles. Then Ramesvara Maharaja's zone was described.
SM: Is he in his zone all the time or was that Hansadutta Maharaja's zone beforehand?
BCS: No, he is working Ramesvara Maharaja all along. And Ramesvara Maharaja is also looking after Hansadutta Maharaja's zone.
SM: Is Ramesvara Maharaja initiating there also?
BCS: No, I don't think he is initiating there.
SM: Has Hansadutta Maharaja been removed from that temporary or permanently?
English:
BCS: Maharaja is asking, the removal of Hansadutta Maharaja is temporary or permanent?
DKS: Of the zone? It's permanent.
BCS: Permanent.
SM: Permanent. Tamal Krsna was permanently removed?
DKS: From America…
BCS: Permanently removed.
SM: Permanently removed.
DKS: So when we read Prabhupada's books…
SM: Bengali regarding vote being unanimous, majority or what?
DKS: Finally it was unanimous, there were some previous votes but finally it was unanimous.
SM: Unanimous verdict? or majority?
BCS: Finally it was unanimous.
SM: Bengali.
DKS: But it's been… officially they say until Mayapur, and they will discuss further.
BCS: That's what I was…
DKS: But I'm telling what was unofficial.
SM: Bengali… serious step… death blow…
Bengali:
SM: This has been a very serious mistake. It can be considered to be a death blow. The position that was established by Swami Maharaja on the strength of majority to dismiss it just in one or two years. This has been a very bold step. This has been an interference into the "srota pantha". I think that such bold step should not have been taken. To challenge the decision of the spiritual master and give a verdict against his will.
English:
Do you follow?
DKS: I think I got the gist. He said it was a very bold step that they took.
SM: It has been… to remove the nominated acaryas of Swami Maharaja so soon, it has become very undeliberate and is almost suicidal, almost suicidal step. It has challenged the very nomination of Swami Maharaja.
DKS: That's one of the questions. In Prabhupada's books he never says that one is guru by appointment but he says one is guru by qualification.
SM: By?
DKS: …qualification, not by appointment.
SM: …qualification, and considering the qualification he gave recognition to the acaryas, is it not? Independent of qualification, whimsically he appointed did he? Did he do so?
BCS: Actually, one of the questions is that whether Prabhupada really appointed them as guru. Because so far we didn't find the… enough proof to confirm that…
SM: What is the basis of the acaryas?
BCS: That is Prabhupada said that they can be rittviks.
SM: They can be?
BCS: Rittvik.
SM: Rttvk.
BCS: Yes, on behalf of Prabhupada they can initiate.
SM: During his lifetime. During his lifetime these eleven were appointed as his assistant. They could also initiate during his lifetime?
BCS: No, not during his lifetime. During his lifetime a… they can initiate on behalf of Prabhupada. But after Prabhupada left, who will initiate Prabhupada did not clearly mention. This doubt is coming up now.
SM: At least that is to be surmised that persons that were allowed during his stay… occupied the position of rittvik or mediator… they should have some recognition thereby… and previous they must enjoy about the nomination of the acaryas rittvik... but there must be grave reason to remove. It is, of course, removable but not so easily, so easily. Once this has been accepted by the GBC that they have got nomination from gurudeva in any way or other, they should not be removed so easily… not be removed. There must be grave causes to deal… then they can sit to deal ___against them___ and it has been mentioned in the scripture that with the help of a higher Vaisnava, with the advice of a higher realized soul, the position of guru should be challenged. And that is the most deplorable thing in the world, in the life of any man, to change the guru or to see that his guru is changed or dismissed or dishonored. Of course, it is not… can never be permanent, only in the case of vaisnava aparadha, that is the most detrimental thing on this path, without that any small defects that can be seen in our eyes or felt by our ordinary conception that is not sufficient cause to remove one from the position of acarya who has already been selected by guru maharaja. To disbelieve the guru maharaja is going up to such a degree… not an easy matter to play with. Hare Krsna. Hare Krsna.
BCS: Now that it has been done.
SM: Now that may be compensated, it is temporary and then to reinstate, to remove the foolishness of the body. Of course, if there is sufficient cause, sufficient cause including a sort of dishonor to guru and vaisnava, not ordinary differences in the policy of propaganda or preaching. The policy and the process of preaching may vary, that does not matter much, but offense against a guru and vaisnava that should be considered as the serious point to remove one acarya. Or gross, gross negligence about moral life… something like that… very heavy loss of moral life… that is also not sufficient… that may be a strong cause but the offense to the guru parampara descent line of the divinity, that is generally considered to be the cause of the removal of the acarya. Krsna.
(To be continued…)
