Responses to Ajamila das on Female Diksha
Guru Issue

BY: SUN STAFF

Oct 28, 2012 — CANADA (SUN) —

Text PAMHO:24267486 (112 lines)
From: Basu Ghosh (das) ACBSP (Baroda - IN)
Date: 28-Oct-12 12:21 (17:51 +0530)
To: ISKCON India (news & discussion)
To: ISKCON Prabhupada Disciples
Bcc: ICC (Indian Continental Committee)
Bcc: ICC Western Divisional Council
Bcc: Prabhupada Disciples
Attached: Resolution_passed_#45092C0.docx
Subject: Hot under the collar: not the way to discuss - and many points

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Home Base: ISKCON Baroda

Dear Readers,

Namonamaha. Jaya Srila Prabhupada!

Since Ajamila Prabhu has taken it upon himself to employ slander and character assasination as techniques for winning the debate on the question of female diksha guru, by doing so, he's disqualifying himself from the debate.

For that he owes an apology to Shyamasundara Prabhu and myself.

He ought to have stuck to ideology and solid argument in this regard. It is sad that he seems to have "gone ballistic" instead of maintaining a "cool head". By his writings it seems that he's declaring himself "the all knowing God", instead of understanding that he, like we, are "tiny jivas"!

The SAC presented their paper on the topic of FDGs, and they felt it wise not to include such weak examples (as Ajamila Prabhu has presesnted) to support the FDG concept.

The ISKCON India Regional Governing body (IRGB) passed a resolution in 2010, response to the GBC resolution 305 of 2009, calling for suspension of the said resolution, and for continued discussion on the topic of FDGs.

The resolution of the IRGB challenged the GBC resolution (and not Rochana Das of the Sampradaya Sun website) and answered the GBC resolution in a respectful and thorough way.

Therefore, I'm sending across the IRGB resolution mentioned herein above, for the knowledge and reference of all readers of this text. The IRGB resolution is being taken very seriously by several GBC members and is being formally submitted as a GBC proposal by Bhakti Purushottam Swami (belatedly).

To learn more about the erstwhile GHQ, which was a group of devotees who were -- and still are -- concerned about the cultural and moral direction being taken in ISKCON, read the article "notes from a think tank" that extensively answered the charges that Ajamila Prabhu has decided is the best way to "win the debate" on FDG, 13 years ago, at the following place on the internet (URL): http://www.vnn.org/editorials/ET9902/ET21-3119.html

Also note that Ajamila Prabhu's close friend Goloka Chandra Prabhu from Malaysia was also a member of the GHQ! ;-)

Here are some more questions for Ajamila Prabhu and other proponents of female diksha guru:

1. Did Srila Prabhupada want to establish Daivai Varnashrama in ISKCON or not?

2. If yes then women must follow dVAD program.

3. Are brahmacaris in ISKCON expected to follow brahmacari dharma?

4. Are grhastas in ISKCON expected to follow grhasta dharma?

5. Are sannyasis in ISKCON expected to follow sannyasi dharma?

6. If answer is "yes" then why women in ISKCON not expected to follow Stri Dharma?

7. If answer is "No" why is it if a sannyasi in ISKCON doesn't follow sannyasa dharma he has to give up his position, etc., as in recent case of Prabhavisnu Prabhu.

The GBC had, during 2008, passed a resolution calling for "annotations and footnotes in Srila Prabhupada's books". Action that is still supported by Hridayananda Maharaj, for example. After a public outcry from many devotees, headed by Nrsimhananda Prabhu, a petition on the internet that I was closely associated with, and rejection of the resolution by the BBT and Jayadvaita Maharaj, the resolution was rescinded by further resolution during 2009.

The GBC resolution 305 of 2009 calling for FDGs, similarly was passed without proper consideration and ought to be rescinded as well.

The issue of FDG is very serious -- one that will effect the future of ISKCON for long. The cursory view of the subject that is being presented by Ajamila Prabhu and Kaunteya Prabhu does NOT do justice to the issue. ISKCON is in serious threat of going the way of the sahajiya apa-sampradyas if we do not seriously consider the objections to FDG that are being raised in reference to numerous instructions given by Prabhupada clearly in this regard.

Hope this meets you all well. das,

Basu Ghosh Das

---------- Forwarded Message ----------
Letter PAMHO:24266059 (252 lines) [M1]
From: Ajamila (das) ACBSP (Goloka Books - UK)
Date: 28-Oct-12 02:39 (10:39 +0800)
Bcc: ISKCON India (news & discussion) [9848]
Bcc: ISKCON Prabhupada Disciples [1831]
Bcc: Basu Ghosh (das) ACBSP (Baroda - IN) [151964]
Subject: Rocan's REPRESSION of SP's spiritual daughters sastricaly exposed

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Dear Devotees, pamho agtsp. Hare Krishna!

The GBC had, according to sastric verification, passed a resolution in 2009 that any qualified female devotee can become a diksha guru in ISKCON. This was very much welcomed by almost all the ISKCON devotees worldwide.

However, a very vocal small group of devotees who named themselves GHQ (military term for general head quarters), headed by Shyamasundar Dasa, who claims to be an astrolger, have for many years been very heavily scorning any qualified woman in ISKCON who would even think of becoming a diksha guru.
(Text PAMHO:24267486) --------------------------------------

Letter PAMHO:24266816 (322 lines) [M1]
From: Internet: "William G. Benedict"
Date: 28-Oct-12 08:50 (01:50 -0700)
To: Ajamila (das) ACBSP (Goloka Books - UK) [33239] (received: 28-Oct-12 09:29)
Bcc: Basu Ghosh (das) ACBSP (Baroda - IN) [151992]
Reference: Text PAMHO:24266059 by Ajamila (das) ACBSP (Goloka Books - UK)
Attached: 24266816.eml (40813 bytes) "Original email file"
Subject: Re: Rocan's REPRESSION of SP's spiritual daughters sastricaly exposed

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My Dear Ajamila,

Please accept my humble obeisances. All Glories to His Divine Grace Srla Prabhupada! Param Vijayate Sri Krishna Samkirtan!

It seems that you are being irrational and illogical in your approach to the subject of female diksha gurus.

If you study the subject with a level head -- instead of writing as if you are God's only messenger on Earth -- a present day Jesus, Lord Chaitanya or Avatar of the absolute -- you might be able to begin to understand the subject matter here.

When Prabhupada wrote:

"Suniti, however, being a woman, and specifically his mother, could not become Dhruva Maharaja's diksha-guru." in his purport to SBj 4.12.32, what do you think he meant by the words "being a woman" and then "could not be Dhruva Maharaj's diksha guru"?

I find the "evidence" of one conversation, when compared with the entire body of Srila Prabhupada's books, lectures, and other conversations to be flimsy. Prabhupada always talked about women being protected and never independent. Did he not? Whereas a Brahman must be always independent, otherwise he cannot maintain truthfulness, the principle of being a Brahmin. To give Gayatra and Sacred thread, it is not the position of women in society. Where is the historic example of this?

Gangamata Goswami, is a very unique case in history, and the wife of Lord Nitayananda apparently did not give diksha at all, although she was a leader of the Vaisnavas. But was she even JIVA TATTVA? I have read that she displayed four armed forms at times and is actually shakti tattva?

This is an important issue, and rarely to I feel strongly on issues, but this for me is important, more than the other guru issues we have been over in the past.

I hope you may reconsider you strong views.

Pray you are well.

Your servant,

Bhakta dasa (ACBSP)
https://www.facebook.com/Bhakta.dasa
www.aromaxthai.com

________________________________
From: Ajamila (das) ACBSP (Goloka Books - UK)
To:
Sent: Sunday, October 28, 2012 9:39 AM
Subject: Rocan's REPRESSION of SP's spiritual daughters sastricaly exposed

Dear Devotees, pamho agtsp. Hare Krishna!

The GBC had, according to sastric verification, passed a resolution in 2009
that any qualified female devotee can become a diksha guru in ISKCON. This
was very much welcomed by almost all the ISKCON devotees worldwide.

However, a very vocal small group of devotees who named themselves GHQ
(military term for general head quarters), headed by Shyamasundar Dasa, who
claims to be an astrolger, have for many years been very heavily scorning
any qualified woman in ISKCON who would even think of becoming a diksha
guru.

Recently Rocan dasa (hiding behind a phantom name of Krishna Devi Dasi)
wrote and circulated a paper campaigning for the 2009 GBC Resolution to
allow female diksha gurus to be WITHDRAWN. This demand is of course in total
ignorance of Srila Prabhupada's crystal clear instructions provided herein
below that he definitely 100% wanted his qualified spiritual daughters to
initite disciples.

Rocan dasa, the head of the nonSUNce Sampradaya website, criticises ISKCON
and the GBC at every chance making it his goal of life. Both Rocana and
Shyamasundara's GHQ Group vociferously object that such highly qualified
women should always keep quiet and stay out of sight, and just stick to
Stree Dharma, in a way that is not too much different from how the Taliban
treat even young 13 year old women who want an education. Such loud mouthe
d devotees have extensively campaigned to repress the immense wealth of our
qualified ISKCON women, and as a result such highly advanced spiritual
daughters of Srila Prabhupada have suffered such intimidating phsycological
repression for many, many years and so we have lost the benefits of their
full preaching potential.

But this is clearly not what Srila Prabhupada did or wanted. Check the
uncompromising evidence below for yourself.

Herein you are presented with overwhelming irrefutable evidence that Srila
Prabhupada wanted his beloved spiritual daughters to initiate disciples. He
certainly did not want them to be trashed in Talaban fashion as is the case
with an unfortunate small group of devotees who are absolutely BENT upon
repressing any qualified female devotee from becoming a diksha guru, even to
the extent of defying Srila Prabhupada's explicit instructions not to do so.

Srila Prabhupada's emphasis was on QUALIFICATION not GENDER, see the 100%
proof of that below.

This small group of devotees, who are determined to stop any qualified women
from initiating at all cost, argue that Stree Dharma is the highest
achievement for any ISKCON woman. Srila Prabhupada also confirms that and in
many instructions as being applicable for women IN ANCIENT TIMES, and in one
particular statement Srila Prabhupada said a woman cannot be a diksha guru,
again referring to ANCIENT TIMES. This is the crux of the body of their
evidence.

However, in 1976 Srila Prabhupada CLEARLY OVERRIDES that ancient Stree
Dharma principle with the highest principle - preaching Krishna
cosciousness, and that is if any of his spiritual daughters was qualified
SHE COULD BECOME A DIKSHA GURU AND INITIATE DISCIPLES, clearly overriding
the lesser Stree Dharma principle. See SP's direct statement below.

THE NORMAL CULTURAL INSTRUCTION: SP wanted women to follow Stree Dharma.

THE HIGHEST SPIRITUAL INSTRUCTION: SP wanted his qualified spiritual
daughters to go higher than Stree Dharma and to become qualified diksha
gurus and to initiate disciples.

IN 1976, AFTER COMPLETING MOST OF HIS WRITINGS, SRILA PRABHUPADA OVERRIDED
ALL HIS LESS IMPORTANT STREE DHARMA INSTRUCTIONS WITH HIGHER PREACHING
INSTRUCTIONS FOR HIS QUALIFIED SPIRITUAL DAUGHTERS TO BECOME DIKSHA GURUS:

Below is but some of the most significant evidence:

===================================
Toronto, June 18, 1976

Interview with Professors O'Connell, Motilal and Shivaram --

Prof. O'Connell: Is it possible, Swamiji, for a woman to be a guru in the
line of disciplic succession?

Prabhupada: Yes. Jahnava devi was-Nityananda's wife.

Prabhupada: In our material world, is it any prohibition that woman cannot
become professor? If she is qualified, she can become professor. What is the
wrong there? She must be qualified. That is the position. So similarly, if
the woman understands Krsna consciousness perfectly, she can become guru.

==================================

Srila Prabhupada clearly states that QUALIFICATION is the determining
factor, not GENDER. It is crystal clear.


Letter to Hamsaduta on Jan 3, 1969:
"I want that all of my spiritual sons and daughters will inherit this title
of Bhaktivedanta, so that the family transcendental diploma will continue
through the generations. Those possessing the title of Bhaktivedanta will be
allowed to initiate disciples. Maybe by 1975, all of my disciples will be
allowed to initiate and increase the numbers of the generations. That is my
program."

Srila Prabhupada mentions DAUGHTERS, he never ever said men only.



Letter to Madhusudana, Nov 2, 1967:
"Anyone following the order of Lord Caitanya under the guidance of His bona
fide representative, can become a spiritual master and I wish that in my
absence all my disciples become the bona fide spiritual master to spread
Krishna Consciousness throughout the whole world."

Srila Prabhupada said ANYONE, he didn't exclude women, ever.




Sri Vyäsa-püjä Lecture, London, August 22, 1973:
"My dear sons and daughters . . . Anyone who is coming to Krsna
consciousness, he's not ordinary living being. Anyone who is connected with
our movement, he's not ordinary living being. Actually, he's liberated soul.
And I am very much hopeful that my disciples who are now participating
today, even if I die, my movement will not stop, I am very much hopeful."

Srila Prabhupada says his DAUGHTERS are not ordinary.



"Yes. All these nice boys and girls who have taken so seriously . . . To
become spiritual master is not very difficult thing. You'll have to become
spiritual master. You, all my disciples, everyone should become spiritual
master. . . . Remain always a servant of your spiritual master and present
the thing as you have heard. You'll be spiritual master. . . . So I hope
that all of you, men, women, boys and girls, become spiritual master."

Srila Prabhupada says ALL my disciples, EVERYONE should become spiritual
master. He never ever excluded the women except when referring to ancient
Stree Dharma which he subsequently overrided as verified herein.




Letter to Malati, December 25, 1974:
"Women in our movement can also preach very nicely. Actually male and female
bodies, these are just outward designations. Lord Caitanya said that whether
one is brahmana or whatever he may be if he knows the science of Krsna then
he is to be accepted as guru."

The above is yet another crystal clear example that Srila Prabhupada wanted
his spiritual daughters to transcend Stree Dharma and become qualified to
initiate disciples as a diksha guru.




Sri Caitanya-caritamrita, Ädi-lila, 7.37-38, purport:
"Every äcärya has a specific means of propagating his spiritual movement
with the aim of bringing men to Krsna consciousness. Therefore, the method
of one äcärya may be different from that of another, but the ultimate goal
is never neglected. . . . The äcärya must devise a means to bring them to
devotional service. Therefore, although I am a sannyäsi I sometimes take
part in getting boys and girls married, although in the history of sannyäsa
no sannyäsé has personally taken part in marrying his disciples . . . It is
the concern of the äcärya to show mercy to the fallen souls . . . we are
thoroughly instructing both men and women how to preach, and actually they
are preaching wonderfully . . . Both men and women are preaching the gospel
of Lord Caitanya Mahäprabhu and Lord Krsna with redoubled strength . . . it
is a principle that a preacher must strictly follow the rules and
regulations laid down in the sästras yet at the same time devise a means by
which the preaching work to reclaim the fallen may go on with full force."

Srila Prabhupada therefore as the greatest acarya overrided the Stree Dharma
principle for the sake of the higher principle of preaching Krishna
concsiousness and so he instructed his qualified spiritual daughters to
initiate disciples.





Toronto, June 18, 1976

Interview with Professors O'Connell, Motilal and Shivaram --

Woman: Swamiji, would you say something about the place of women in your
movement?

Prabhupada: There is no distinction between man and woman. That is clearly
said in the Bhagavad-gita. Mam hi partha vyapasritya ye 'pi syuh
papa-yonayah striyo sudras tatha vaisyah [Bg. 9.32]. The first is mentioned,
striya. Striyah sudras tatha vaisyah. These classes are understood to be
less intelligent-woman, sudra, and the vaisyas. But Krsna says, "No, even
for them it is open." Because in the spiritual platform there is no such
distinction, man, woman, or black, white, or big or small. No. Everyone is
spirit soul. Panditah sama-darsinah [Bg. 5.18]. Vidya-vinaya-sampanne
brahmane gavi hastini suni caiva sva-pake ca panditah [Bg. 5.18], one who is
actually learned, he is sama-darsinah. He does not make any distinction. But
so far our material body is concerned, there must be some distinction for
keeping the society in order.

Woman: The women could become panditas, then.

Prabhupada: Oh, yes. Te 'pi yanti param gatim. Not only come, she can also
attain perfection. There is no such restriction. Krsna said.

Woman: Do you have any panditas in the Western movement?

Prabhupada: There are so many Western woman, girls, in our society. They are
chanting, dancing, taking to Krsna consciousness. Of course, because
superficially, bodily, there is some distinction, so we keep women
separately from men, that's all. Otherwise, the rights are the same.

Prof. O'Connell: Is it possible, Swamiji, for a woman to be a guru in the
line of disciplic succession?

Prabhupada: Yes. Jahnava devi was-Nityananda's wife. She became. If she is
able to go to the highest perfection of life, why it is not possible to
become guru? But, not so many. Actually one who has attained the perfection,
she can become guru. But man or woman, unless one has attained the
perfection.... Yei krsna-tattva-vetta sei guru haya [Cc. Madhya 8.128]. The
qualification of guru is that he must be fully cognizant of the science of
Krsna. Then he or she can become guru. Yei krsna-tattva-vetta, sei guru
haya. [break] In our material world, is it any prohibition that woman cannot
become professor? If she is qualified, she can become professor. What is the
wrong there? She must be qualified. That is the position. So similarly, if
the woman understands Krsna consciousness perfectly, she can become guru.

Indian man: Well, to understand Krsna consciousness, do you not require
adhikari?

Prabhupada: Adhikari means he must agree to understand. That is adhikari.
But we do not agree. That is our fault.

=======================================
End of quotes.

Since this very small group of devotees are very determined to reject all
the above undeniable evidence that SP wanted his qualified spiritual
daughters to initiate disciples it is clear they are not sincere followers
of Srila Prabhupada and therefore their criticisms should be totally
ignored. Those dog like barks may continue but the ISKCON preaching caravan
headed by the GBC will continue to march forward.

In the service of Srila Prabhupada's ISKCON and all his beloved qualified
spiritual daughters.

Hoping this meets you all well. Hare Krishna

ys

ad


N.B. Please spread this all over the universe to prevent small percentage of
Talaban like ignorant devotees from repressing Srila Prabhupada's highly
qualified spiritual daughters.

Text PAMHO:24266816) --------------------------------------

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