We Tried to Be Tatastha…
BY: PATITAPAVANA DAS
Aug 20, 2010 — USA (SUN) — …or neutral on studying Sadhudasa Anudasa dasa's recent paper, "Jiva-tattva As It Is" on the soul's fall from tatastha or ocean between the material and spiritual world. [see end note]
But he states: (Sadhu dasa's points indented):
That is not fair. This is like half educating your child and throwing it in the ocean between Ramaraja and Ravana's svarna (golden) Lanka. Better foster it in Ramaraja and then give it a free choice. Therefore we fall from love of God in the spiritual world.
One even gets a warning of protection (SB 3.12.3 purport)
"Anyone who has some independence may sometimes misuse it due to ignorance. When the living entity prefers to misuse his independence and glide down towards nescience, the all-merciful Lord first of all tries to protect him from the trap, but when the living entity persists in gliding down to hell, the Lord helps him to forget his real position…the Lord naturally does not like to see anyone falling down from his real position".
"His real position" means prema-bhakti, not the brahmajyoti or ocean of causes. One falls from loving service to Krishna.
"Krishna has full power over His energies – not over the tatastha." It is his axiom that Krishna has full power over every nitya siddha. Why He doesn't exerts full power over every jiva so no one has to fall down. Some are generated perfectly either as jiva-sakti, svarupa-sakti or Visnu tattva with fully developed siddha deha and free will. He could have created all the jivas like that. There would be no need of a Viraja region nor a material world. Everyone eternally happy! Why the svarupa sakti and the Visnu tattavas as Balarama, Vamana, Varaha with free will are exempt from going through a Viraja trial. They also need "a perfect spiritual environment of neutrality to choose," or are they forced to love?
"Out of curiosity 25% of souls in ocean of causes lean towards maya, 75% go to the spiritual world".
He comes to this because he thinks ¾th of the souls had to come to the spiritual world and ¼th to the maya world.
This is the quantitative wrong idea of ekapada tripada vibhuti. The actual meaning of this is that the Lord has 4 vibutis or excellences: the spiritual energy of the spiritual world, the Brahmajyoti, the marginal energy and the material world.
tripad-vibhuter dhamatvat tripadbhutam tu tat padam
vibhutir mayiki sarva prokta padatmikayatah
TRANSLATION
Vaikuntha is called tripad-bhutam because it is the abode which possess three portions of power. All the powers of the material realm are called only one portion.
COMMENTARY
When Vaikuntha is described as tripad-bhutam it means that the material powers of the material realm consisting of one pad do not exist in Vaikuntha. (Laghu Bhagavatamrta 5.286)
In Ramaraja, Ravana was expelled. Why force a Ravana into a holy kingdom. That would cause fear in a paradise.
However, there is no false ego in the Viraja ocean, false ego is only a later development. The Viraja ocean expands the pradhana; pradhana expands the mahat-tattva; and mahat-tattva expands false ego.
"We can't argue why false ego arises from pure consciousness" means at any moment maya can capture someone who is in the maya world. See the context (SB 3.26.23). There is no discussion of the causal ocean there.
And, why 25% lean and go to maya, why not also to Krishna since they are equally, newly expanded from the Brahmajyoti into the Viraja. He made these 25% with a desire to fall down, 75% will never fall down.
This is not the same in fall-vada. Everyone can fall down to maya. iccha-dvesa-samuthena dvandva-mohena bharata; sarvabhutani sammoham sarge yanti parantapa iccha dvesa samuthena (Bg 9.27) "O scion of Bharata [Arjuna], O conqueror of the foe, all living entities are born into delusion, overcome by the dualities of desire and hate."
And, when the souls are coming out of Maha-Visnu, there is no maya world yet to glance at to become attracted to and lean towards.
This glancing to maya and Krishna (described in the Jaiva-dharma) is when the soul comes down from the spiritual world and gets a 3rd choice at the border with the maya world. The 1st choice is in the spiritual world; the 2nd choice is after the warning of protection.
Srila Prabhupada says: "he [the jiva] forgets his relation with Acyuta." Sadhudasanudasa dasa twists that to mean that the jiva forgets that at the border of Viraja he was in dizzy Vasudeva consciousness. The quote to support this view is given from the SB 4.3.22:
sattvam visuddham vasudeva-sabditam
yad iyate tatra puman apavritah
sattve ca tasmin bhagavan vasudevo
hy adhokshajo me namasa vidhiyate
"I am always engaged in offering obeisances to Lord Vasudeva in pure Krishna consciousness. Krishna consciousness is always pure consciousness, in which the Supreme Personality of Godhead, known as Vasudeva, is revealed without any covering".
This and the previous verses are spoken by Siva who is not in maya nor in the Viraja. Srila Visvanatha Cakravarti Thakura comments in 4.3.29 "I [Siva] residing in Vaikuntha at every moment, worship the Lord". He meditates on Vasudeva without any covering. Vasudeva is suddha sattva in Vaikuntha. (see the purport to SB 4.3.22)
And if we go along with the author's argument, if envy and false ego can enter the jiva in suddha sattva Viraja, where there is no gunamaya, then envy can enter the soul also in suddha sattva Goloka or Vaikuntha.
It is not that in the ocean of causes, the soul has "only vision of Vasudeva without His energies." Garga samhita 1.2.14-20 describes that the demigods came to Krishna to ask to destroy the burden on the earth planet (see SB 10.1).
Immediately after passing the shells around the universe they came to Krishna-loka (not Visnu or Narayana). Skanda purana 2.9.16.12-20 states the same. Narada Muni passes the shells of the universe and at the other side of the ocean of causes he came in Krishna-loka.
The ocean of causes had the fragrance of sandal due to the bath taken by multitudes of cowherds (gopas) and cowherdesses (gopis), Krishna's associates. It was full of lotuses, swans and water-birds. The banks were full of rows of kalpa-vrksas (wish-yielding trees) kamadhenus (wish-fulfilling) cows drinking the water and innumerable bowers suitable for the amorous sports of Sri Sri Radha-Krishna.
This is not so. They know about maya. In Brhad Bhagavatamrta 2.3.77-91, Ganesha is showing, seeing and describing many parties of Vaikuntha devotees who go down from the spiritual world beyond Siva or Mahesha-dhama, (which is just in the spiritual world), to the many universes in the material world to preach and spread pure devotion.
Ganesa showed this to Gopakumara who was in Mahesha dhama (which is beyond the mahat-tattva or maya).
Also in Brhad Bhagavatamrta 1.3.46. we read:
"They travel freely wherever they want, protecting and promoting the cause of the Lord's devotees and the Lord's devotional service."
Commentary
"These eternally liberated Vaikuntha-vasis are always helping others. Acting in the material world, they protect sincere persons from misunderstanding the principles of devotional service and thereby falling down and being punished by the agents of Yama-raja. The Vaikuntha-vasis encourage the descent of advanced devotees into saintly families, act for the increased prosperity and influence of those devotees, and render unseen help to the devotees' preaching".
"There is no santa rasa in Goloka. One can fall only from santarasa, not from the others."
There is santarasa in Goloka. In the commentary to CC Madhya 8.294 we read: "Srila Bhaktisiddhanta Sarasvati T?hakura points out that in Vrajabhumi there is the Yamuna River with its sandy banks. There are kadamba trees, cows, Kr?s?n?a's sticks with which He herds cows, and Kr?s?n?a's flute. All of these belong to santa-rasa, the mellow of neutrality in devotional service".
"Sri Krsna is known as Rasaraja. This name implies that He tastes all rasas, and it refers to Him in His Vraja-lila. From this it should be clear that he tastes santa rasa in Vraja. This is also confirmed in Bhakti-rasamrta-sindhu 4.3.85. There Srila Rupa Gosvami writes that Krsna tasted santa rasa along with all other rasas while lifting Govardhana hill. In this example Sri Krsna tastes santa rasa and is the shelter (asraya alambana) of santa rasa. Later in Mathura he tasted santa rasa as the object (visaya alambana) of love when he was wrestling in Kamsa's arena, SB 10.43.17. The sages present experienced santa rasa in relation to Sri Krsna".
So if one can fall only from santarasa, since this rasa is also in Goloka, one can fall from Goloka.
We have another 100 points of irregular compositions (more than permissible as per SB 1.5.11), needless repetitions (over and over saying the same thing including copying and pasting), and superficial sloppy ill-naming and accusations. He says for example that government agencies (the CIA?) may have implanted the fall-vada in ISKCON. He calls a fall vadi worse then a mayavadi because fall-vada says that the nityasiddha has free will. Therefore the nityasiddha is equal to Krishna, and the fall-vadi wants to become Krishna.
Conclusion: Bhauma patanavada or falling only from Krishna's lila within the material world and kaka-vada (falling from Karanadakasayi or Maha-Visnu in the Karana samudra or ocean between the material and spiritual worlds) is not in these words in the scripture or in the Bhaktivedanta purports. Sadhu dasa anudasa dasa took it from outside of Srila Prabhupada's teachings and then tried to find it in Srila Prabhupada's teachings.
Sadhu dasa anudasa dasa speaks so highly of saktyavesa avatara Srila Prabhupada and the Bhaktivedanta purports. Why he went outside of these to solve the questions on the fall of the soul.
Your servant: Patita Pavana dasa
Footnote:
[1] Tatastha means neutral, in between area. Also named Viraja (vi=no, raja-guna or any modes of nature). Viraja is described as ocean or river because it is like a delta of a river. It surrounds the millions of universes. A delta surrounds islands a delta as e.g. the end of the Ganga can be seen as river or ocean.
